Posted on 05/12/2006 12:13:47 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
Politicizing???
Perhaps you have them confused with the Discovery Institute.
What has this august group discovered? Cure for cancer, the 11th planet, a new quark? New antibiotics?
What percentage of their budget goes into research, as opposed to, say...public relations?
So, tell me about "politicizing [and trashing] science."
Richard Carrier originally tracked this down, and his discoveries have been published in a peer-reviewed journal. I have copies of the Picker and Bormann versions of Table-Talk, both in the original German, and have verified Mr Carrier's discoveries. Hitler, while he had some novel ideas on how the Church could be 'improved', was not notably anti-Christian; in fact, I can quote you a dozen authentic examples from the original source where he spoke favorable of Christianity, and particularly Catholicism. Mr. Carrier has told me in a private communication that Enigma will shortly be publishing a direct English translation of the Bormann Vermerke in which the problems with the Trevor-Roper version will be highlighted.
I am of the opinion that US propaganda after the war was pitched to make Hitler seem more anti-Christian than he actually was, in order to bolster Adenauer's Christian Democrats. But in the present example, Genoud evidently inserted the anti-Christian remarks on his own. He was fond of 'improving' on his mentor's thoughts.
>That others think him not is of their own faith belief.
Here is the logic I employ:
1) I believe in Jesus Christ, because of what I read in the Bible
2) The Bible is the word of God, because it says what happens thousands of years before it happens http://www.direct.ca/trinity/y3nf.html
3) Thus, because the Bible is the word of God, and it says that Christians are to love their enemies, and one another, and serve one another, and that the Jewish people are still God's people, and not to hate or murder, AND Hitler ignored all of the above, I conclude that Hitler was not a Christian.
>Many Christians even today do not consider other Christians
>of a different sect Christians and they continue to form
>other branches.
Christians failing does not cease to make the Bible the word of God. Even those who were used by the Holy Spirit to write the Bible admit their shortcomings.
>He believe in Christianity as he saw it just as you believe
>it as you see it.
Truth is not subjective. You can build on truth without internal and external contradictions, but Hitler's lies for instance, are laid open for the world to see. It's easy to point out the lie that is his faith with the Bible.
Questions:
If the Bible says "[love one another and people will know you are Christians]", and Hitler hated the Jews and wanted them dead, is it my personal perception that Hitler was not a Christian, or can I prove it by his actions ?
If the Bible says that Jesus was born into a Jewish family, and Hitler believes otherwise, why would I trust Hitler over the Bible?
If someone rapes your sister, is that a fact that exists in the world, or is it a matter of opinion? Is the fact that she was raped due to her inability to abstract reality away properly, or did it actually happen?
Is pedophilia an unfortunate oopsie that could not be helped, or is it a destructive moral abomination?
I think you're trying to point out, that people normally lie to themselves about whatever they like to. Right?
Ping!
Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so wisely--they are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust.
Hey, those guys are as anti-evolution as some of the folks we see here very day!
[They be scary!]
That's pretty funny.
If you clicked on it I hope your firewall and anti-spyware programs are up to date.
His quotes are from a compromised source. It's pointless to discuss them.
This is not discovery.
That and your post is of your own faith and belief. That people and Christians disagree on faith and belief is nothing new.
They reap not, neither do they sow. But they have really nice buildings.
We have both hardware and software [up to date] firewalls, a non-standard computer, and an old non-standard operating system. Plus, the main computer systems we use in the office are not physically connected to this system, or to the internet.
This is a throwaway, which we use for net browsing only.
Pretty safe I think.
[Hope Fester is as cautious.]
I was mostly concerned for fester's welfare when I posted it.
You normally aren't but you're acting like one here.
You might want to reread the thread and see who started bashing scientists a atheist and Nazis.
I know, the creationists started by associating Darwin with Hitler. That doesn't mean you have to use similar tactics, dishonestly associating Hitler with Christianity. You are probably more educated that most creationists, so you should know better.
I didn't quote mine. I included all of what Hitler thought in Mien Kampf.
You selectively chose quotes that were meant for propaganda purposes and passed them off as if they somehow represented his true feelings, ignoring the masses of nasty things Hitler said about Christianity in private.
Mien Kampf, BTW, was published and intended for public consumption. Anyone in Germany could pick up a copy, and millions did.
He proclaimed himself Christian and now later Christians want to judge him according to todays thought.
He only pretended to be a Christian in public. However, an examination of his religious beliefs clearly reveals that he greatly disdained traditional Christianity. He expressed particular contempt for Catholicism, the Church to which he supposedly belonged.
Hitler was not a Christian even by the standards of most Christians of Germany in his time.
I'll leave you with a Hitler quote recorded by Albert Speer, his architect and close friend:
“You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" (Inside the Third Reich, p. 143)
Albert Speer:
"He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, though he had no real attachment to it."
Inside the Third Reich, p.142.
Stultis quote: "But, if every three years, a river flood buries one horse or horse ancestor under 1 foot of sediment, that eventually amounts to 20 million feet of sediment! Which translates into 3,788 miles, a figure almost equal to the radius of the earth! "
Speaking as a mere layman in regard to archeology and geology:
This statement seems to speak more loudly against the whole strata record approach to dating than any assumption concerning evolution. Who would not expect a significant flood every 100 years or even every 500 years? Given his numbers, it is impossible to even explain the age of the earth, given these impossible numbers! Erroring on the worst case of 500 years per event, the thickness would still be about 19 miles. 10 times farther than the 10,000 feet he proclams!
This starts to call into question earth-age estimates. Plus, how long does it take for the evolution of a species? It certainly takes more than 500 years to see significant changes since we have seen virtually none during man's recorded history on earth (6000 years?). We would need only a major flood event every 10,000 thousand years to record a significant lineage of a species - not every generation (3 years) as the quoted article suggests...
Not sure this guy has spent a lot of time with math, let alone statistics!
Correct. If one wants to know what Hitler thought read his written thoughts. Many did but too late. Yet, even today Mien Kampt is one of the most read books in the world. I saw a statistic that it was second to the Koran in Muslim countries.
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