Newly found species fills evolutionary gap between fish and land animals

EurekAlert (AAAS) ^ | 05 April 2006 | Staff

[Lurking Libertarian]

Does order come of chaos by itself? Prove it.

Snow is "ordered" --it consists of millions of perfectly formed 6-sided crystals-- yet it forms from disordered water vapor.

Does it do that "by itself"? That is a philosophical question. It certainly does so according to the laws of nature.

Personally, I believe that God is the ultimate author of the laws of nature. But I don't believe that He sits down and carves each snowflake. I think He created a universe with natural laws and knew that those laws would be sufficient to accomplish His purposes. I therefore see no conflict between my belief in God and my acceptance of the overwhelming evidence for evolution.

[muawiyah]

Look, I said the "new guys" accepted Weggener's thesis, but the "old guys" didn't ~ as an example of what really happens in science when it comes to the big questions.

That is, that a new paradigm is usually accepted by the younger scientists since they have no shot at the grants going to the older scientists who hold to the older paradigm. (Just in case you needed to be told what the motive is.)

Eventually the old guys pass on to their reward, and there's no one left to argue on behalf of the old paradigm.

Maybe your experience is different.

[muawiyah]

That is your opinion. Math is used to "describe" physical and non-physical elements, and it is the very foundation of science.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"CG, I believe he refers to this.
not "very good reason" at all."

Who knows? He has said that objective reality doesn't exist, and that the universe may be a construct of his mind. He also said that it's communists and fascists who believe in an objective reality, not good God-fearing Christians. They're all subjectivists, by the grace of God.

[muawiyah]

Let's assume they're real ~ as is the vacuum.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"That is your opinion."

No, it's true.

"Math is used to "describe" physical and non-physical elements, and it is the very foundation of science."

Math is used to describe the world, but it's description is only as good as the science that supports it. Math is not science, and science is not math.

[TXnMA]

LOL! I had to backtrack to my original comment to "get" your reference! :-) Glue or gluons -- it's all part of "process"...

FWIW, I've never used the product you recommended. (Couldn't find the "trademark" key on my laptop.) Is it really a great improvement over that cow/bull branded stuff? '-)

[muawiyah]

Not really. I'm afraid you really have no appreciation of the diversity of thought in the Christian community.

[jec41]

I wish you'd keep on your materialism-only track, or admit that we can use mathematical methods to demonstrate what your lil' friend calls "objective reality"

Somebody just tried to remove the very mother of science, to wit, mathematics, from scientific inquiry.

Well off goes opinion again. The father of science as we know it was Aristotle. Descartes is generally thought the father of mathematics. Neither are mothers. Mathemathics and science are not the same and mathematics is not science. Take every mathematics course offered, you will not prove one theory with mathematics. If mathematics were science it would be called science, not mathematics.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Not really. I'm afraid you really have no appreciation of the diversity of thought in the Christian community."


No, really. Christians believe the Bible to be objectively true, no matter what you wish to believe.

[King Prout]

no, you said "Not a scientist of his age ever adopted the Weggenerian view."

man-up and admit your error - otherwise I really have nothing more to say to you.

[muawiyah]

I referred to: "The method of science is observation of a material fact, evidence and empirical evidence of the fact and the explanation of the fact that constitutes theory.

The method of Mathematics is designation of symbols and numbers to prove absolutes or determine laws.

The methods are separate and distinct and are not interchangeable."

Posted by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)

Carolinaguitano bought off on that one with his silence.

[muawiyah]

Certainly God would not be distracted by wasting all His time carving snowflakes ~ which might well explain why they are all different (except for the 2 featured in Science News last year that looked to be identical).

[muawiyah]

You are the one concerned with the existence of objective reality. I'm not. But what I believe regarding reality, is it objective or subjective, has no bearing on its existence. Reality is allowed to pursue its own future, as am I.

It seems to be your argument that the nature of reality has bearing on the way science plays out.

I could care less.

[TXnMA]

ROTFLOL! It wasn't until after I sent my "white glue" reference that I really looked at your FRName! Guess I could have asked how the simian stuff compared to your "husband's"... '-)

All in good fun -- but I really would like to know how well the "GG" stuff works...

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"You are the one concerned with the existence of objective reality. I'm not."

Obviously.

"It seems to be your argument that the nature of reality has bearing on the way science plays out."

Of course it does.

"I could care less."

No doubt.

[jec41]

Let's assume they're real ~ as is the vacuum.

Science and mathematics don't assume anything. Assumptions are of philosophy and opinion.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Carolinaguitano bought off on that one with his silence."

I never even saw the post. Why the prevarication?

[jec41]

I referred to: "The method of science is observation of a material fact, evidence and empirical evidence of the fact and the explanation of the fact that constitutes theory.

The method of Mathematics is designation of symbols and numbers to prove absolutes or determine laws.

The methods are separate and distinct and are not interchangeable."

Posted by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)

Carolinaguitano bought off on that one with his silence.

This is the post. He opined that science is mathematics.

[ml1954]

... what I believe regarding reality, is it objective or subjective, has no bearing on its existence. Reality is allowed to pursue its own future, as am I.

From what I've heard, acid flashbacks are a bitch. If you think you may be experiencing one, I've heard the best thing to do is to just lie down, breath slowly, and try to take a nap.