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Why intelligent design will change everything
WorldNetDaily ^ | March 25, 2006 | Lynn Barton

Posted on 03/29/2006 7:53:52 PM PST by SampleMan

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To: metmom
That certain fossil sequences will be found in the geologic record; that genetic markers shared by two related species will be shared by any third related species.

ID makes no "predictions" not already covered by evolution, and indeed ID adds an unnecessary extra component -- a designer. If the same features can come about without a designer, why does one need to introduce it except to placate one's own emotional desires.

721 posted on 04/02/2006 5:53:51 AM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: SampleMan

And yet, the pattern stands.

If the intent is not to wear down the opposition, why then continue to post very similarly-toned articles, from the ID standpoint?


722 posted on 04/02/2006 6:05:53 AM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: SampleMan

And yet, the pattern stands.

If the intent is not to wear down the opposition, why then continue to post very similarly-toned articles, from the ID standpoint?


723 posted on 04/02/2006 6:12:08 AM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: 2nsdammit

Oops, sorry, double post....


724 posted on 04/02/2006 6:12:40 AM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: 2nsdammit
You see a pattern, where I see randomness ;) Sorry couldn't resist.

You forget the same thing I often do, on such a large forum, you are changing players a lot. Gnus may always be at the same watering hole, but that doesn't mean they are the same gnus.

I posted this thread, my first ever on ID, because of a chain of events. First, I put up some posts on a thread that I thought there was something about a mutation mechanism that would explain animal evolution, where survival of the fittest didn't seem logical to me. I was immediately attacked as an ignoramus. I then posted an article on DNA mutation, where I was attacked as an ID'er. After about twenty posts telling me to stop being an ID troll, and to tell the truth I decided, I should at least find out the specifics of ID. So I posted this article. Frankly, I don't think it worked.

As for who wore at who, I not sure. I think some sort of thesis could be written about this thread though.

I don't predict that any subject that is in the news is going to cease being put up on this forum though, no matter how thoroughly it gets discussed.

As for myself, I think I will be avoiding eye contact with any evolution type post for at least six months, more if I have good sense.
725 posted on 04/02/2006 6:24:35 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
That is not considered a primary source for Hitler's conversations.

Sure it is.

A primary source does not have to be actually written in the person's hand. A newspaper account or a person's secondhand recollection of an event--as long as it is contemporary--is a primary source.

That is basic historiography.

Certainly, the record of someone's private secretary taking dictation for correspondence or other communication qualifies. The only case in which these would not be considered primary sources is if they are proven forgeries. They are not.

726 posted on 04/02/2006 6:30:01 AM PDT by Skooz (Chastity prays for me, piety sings............Modesty hides my thighs in her wings......)
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To: metmom

I find that a curious post, not yours, the one you answered. I think it was just bait.

As homosexuality has a negative effect on reproduction, I find it a stretch to explain it through selective process. A trait that so strongly prohibits reproduction should be absolutely nonexistant in natural selection. How does it get passed on?

In short, homosexuality is not only a sin, it is hard to explain with evolutionary science beyond, "It exists, therefore it is."


727 posted on 04/02/2006 6:31:26 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: Skooz
" Sure it is.

A primary source does not have to be actually written in the person's hand. A newspaper account or a person's secondhand recollection of an event--as long as it is contemporary--is a primary source."

It's a secondhand account. It's a primary source of what his secretary wrote. He alleges it is Hitler's thoughts, but there is nothing to back that up.

"Certainly, the record of someone's private secretary taking dictation for correspondence or other communication qualifies."

But that isn't what this is.
728 posted on 04/02/2006 6:49:10 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("Things are not what they always seem.")
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To: metmom
That's the rub. There isn't a one. There is no specific proof which Darwinists can bring forward which rebuts ID. ID and Darwinism are both metaphysics, and ID the stronger by logic and reason. Darwinism is weak, but appeals to a crude animalistic emotional level: let's call it the "naked snake in the Garden of Eden level". In passing through that yearling phase, we all want to be as nakedly shrewd and cunning as the snake -- we want to be equals with G-d.

It is a whole lot like the process of teenage rebellion -- some degree of rebellion is found to be part of becoming a responsible adult, and throwing off the fantasies of childhood. Yet sometimes that growth process goes a wee tad too fast, it turns into bitter over-rebellion rather than maturing into responsibleness.

Just like young men cut down shirts to show naked biceps, or young women cut down shirts to show naked midriffs, on the intellectual and spiritual side too, there are things a person changing from youth to adult does to show off his or her naked intellectual strength, or to make bare their fierce "spirit" of individuality, or being the equal or better of every other adult.

Some part of the nature of grass is to grow too fast, and we humans, coming after (creation-wise) that too-fast grass are also in ways too quick to leap to growth opportunities -- and by such intemperance and folly cross from growth to rebellion. While a Darwinist throws off all the fantasies of youth -- for sure! He or she grasps another, even greater fantasy, and bites hard down into it -- the fantasy that there is no G-d, no active G-d in this great garden of life and existence.

729 posted on 04/02/2006 7:02:57 AM PDT by bvw
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To: SampleMan
Did you have some sort of point?

Yes! We need to get this important information about the true nature of the Earth's interior into our schools to counteract what the Godless Geologists are teaching our children!

730 posted on 04/02/2006 7:04:15 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth-Estate is a Fifth-Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
It's a secondhand account. It's a primary source of what his secretary wrote. He alleges it is Hitler's thoughts, but there is nothing to back that up.

His secretary wrote that these are Hitler's communications. Absent evidence to the contrary, it must be assumed they are legitimate. Nothing is needed to "back them up." How does one "back up" the communications records of an historical figure? Unless the exact correspondence or communication can be found by the receiver, that is a near impossible task in any situation. Given that criteria, almost nothing purported to be said by Hitler can be unqualified documentation as everything is a "secondhand account" unless it was actually written in Hitler's hand. But, Like Winston Churchill, Hitler dictated almost everything to a secretary. The secretary's records serve as the primary sources.

Borman's records are evidence in themselves.

Welcome to the world of historical documentary evidence.

"Certainly, the record of someone's private secretary taking dictation for correspondence or other communication qualifies."

But that isn't what this is.

That is precisely what they are.

I assume by your screen name that you are a guitar player. What do you play?

731 posted on 04/02/2006 7:46:49 AM PDT by Skooz (Chastity prays for me, piety sings............Modesty hides my thighs in her wings......)
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To: Skooz
" Absent evidence to the contrary, it must be assumed they are legitimate."

No such thing must be assumed.

"Nothing is needed to "back them up."

Sure there is.

"How does one "back up" the communications records of an historical figure?"

Actual communications from the figure in question would be nice.

"Unless the exact correspondence or communication can be found by the receiver, that is a near impossible task in any situation."

What receiver? These weren't letters.

"Given that criteria, almost nothing purported to be said by Hitler can be unqualified documentation as everything is a "secondhand account" unless it was actually written in Hitler's hand."

Or if his words were recorded on a tape.

"Borman's records are evidence in themselves."

Of Borman's views or of Hitler's? That's the problem.

"Welcome to the world of historical documentary evidence."

I am familiar with it.

"That is precisely what they are."

Nope. They weren't the basis for letters or speeches. They are alleged to be Hitler's private conversations.

" I assume by your screen name that you are a guitar player. What do you play?"

Country, blues, rock.
732 posted on 04/02/2006 8:42:25 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("Things are not what they always seem.")
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To: DoctorMichael
Yes! We need to get this important information about the true nature of the Earth's interior into our schools to counteract what the Godless Geologists are teaching our children!

Its a relief to hear that you are just a kook. I thought that you were one of those missionary-atheist, biologists who spend their time attacking religion. That worried me because it gives ID proponents so much ammunition as it pertains to personal vendettas affecting objectivity. On the outside chance that it was an attempt at humor, I must warn you that humor has not been appreciated on the subject since 1859. This is well documented. I have flame marks to prove it. Good luck with your vulcanistic endeavors.

733 posted on 04/02/2006 12:13:17 PM PDT by SampleMan
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Comment #734 Removed by Moderator

To: DaveLoneRanger
Did you ever question what the difference was between the Old Covenant and the New? And if you are not a Christian, how can you claim to have any say whatsoever in what defines Christianity, anyhow?

You're not a scientist, are you? Maybe you should follow your own logic.

Christians of varying affiliations take varying amounts from the OT. Some Prebyterians, for example, think the extreme penalties dictated in the OT to be meted out on homosexuals, adulterers and even recalcitrant children should still be valid. One highly respected FReeper a while back used the example of the Midianites to indicate the fate of what will happen to proselytizing atheists like Dawkins. (To be fair to her, she did not propose that Christians themselves inflict that punishment.)

What do you mean by "a Christian nation"? I'm not trying to play word games with you; the difference is extremely vital. Is America a Christian nation in the sense that it was founded primarily by and on Christian principles? Yes. Is it Christian in the sense that the vast majority of the citizens are true biblical Christians -- that is, followers of Christ? I would venture to say no, based upon the fruit manifested in the nation.

Few if any of the founders were Biblical Christians in the sense you mean. Phillips, citing Rodney Stark, claims that no more than 15-20% of the population of the Colonies in 1776 regularly attended Church.

735 posted on 04/03/2006 7:43:04 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: All; SampleMan; nmh

I'm still waiting for proof that one species can become an entirely different species.

I'm beginning to think that evolution is based on blind faith.


736 posted on 04/04/2006 8:02:09 AM PDT by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: Sun


737 posted on 04/04/2006 2:53:24 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: Sun

You have been provided reams and reams and reams of examples that this happens, in this thread, and other threads with a similar subject. Fossil evidence, DNA evidence, observed evidence (in so-called "micro" fashion) all show it happening. Since you obviously choose to ignore this, it's apparent that you never will be satisfied.


738 posted on 04/04/2006 3:00:59 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: 2nsdammit

You did not answer the question, and are probably confusing subspecies with species. With evolution, you would have to go across the species line - variations within the species, aka subspecies, does not prove evolution.


739 posted on 04/04/2006 4:47:32 PM PDT by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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Comment #740 Removed by Moderator


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