What Are Creationists Afraid Of?

To: CarolinaGuitarman

Just give me the link for the mathematical proof that it works for evolution. Rhetoric explains nothing.

741 posted on 01/27/2006 4:50:11 PM PST by Retain Mike

"Just give me the link for the mathematical proof that it works for evolution. Rhetoric explains nothing."

No theory in science is mathematically *proved*. What in the hell are you talking about?

742 posted on 01/27/2006 4:51:02 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")

The atheists are the ones trying to prove that there is no God.

The ones I've met don't. Theists posit various gods. They are the ones with the burden of proof. This is irrelevant, however, as the existence of any gods is not relevant to the theory of evolution, which is supposed to be the original topic of discussion.

743 posted on 01/27/2006 4:52:06 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)

The Theory of Evolution is a theory. (Disagreements are over small details, nothing for creationists to get excited about.)

The existence of 'mountains of fossil evidence' vs. "they don't exist" is hardly a small detail.

Neither is small gradual changes over long periods of time vs. punctuated equilibrium.

744 posted on 01/27/2006 4:52:24 PM PST by connectthedots

To: connectthedots; PatrickHenry

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Environmentalists do not deal with evolution -- they deal with the environment. Biologists and paleontologists deal with evolution. Like I asked, would you go to a lawyer for a medical checkup? And your link pointed to one of YOUR posts (#552) not one of PH's.

745 posted on 01/27/2006 4:56:52 PM PST by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)

i meant to say evolutionists. It's been a long couple of days.

747 posted on 01/27/2006 5:02:34 PM PST by connectthedots

Actually, many atheists religiously assert that there is no God.

To which "God", out of the thousands of deities worshipped and acknowledged throughout human history, do you refer and why do you specifically reference that one over all others?

It really takes a lot of faith to be an atheist.

Why?

If anyone, the burden of proof should be on them.

Why should they have the burden of proof of showing that every single claim of a deity ever made is false? You are the one presenting a claim of a deity; you and every other adherent of every theistic religion on the planet. Why can't you support your claims? Why are you such an intellectual coward that you demand that those who don't accept your claims prove you wrong?

748 posted on 01/27/2006 5:03:24 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)

Wow! You made an outstanding post. Talk about throwing a rock in a herd of turkeys. I have never before seen 700 plus comments.

749 posted on 01/27/2006 5:04:09 PM PST by Retain Mike

To: connectthedots

The Theory of Evolution is a theory. (Disagreements are over small details, nothing for creationists to get excited about.)

The existence of 'mountains of fossil evidence' vs. "they don't exist" is hardly a small detail.

Neither is small gradual changes over long periods of time vs. punctuated equilibrium.

First, it is entirely likely that evolution occurred as long periods where nothing much happened separated by short periods of intense selection pressure. What's the big deal. That's not a show-stopper or "proof" for creationism. Posted below is one tiny part of the mountain. Note the fossil number. KNM stands for Kenya National Museum. WT is the West Turkana area. There are other areas.

The individual specimen is number 15,000. That means it is the 15,000th cataloged fossil from West Turkana (or was, when it was recorded; more now). Kenya is only one of the fossil-producing countries of Africa; Ethiopia and South Africa are also quite productive. This is what people mean by "mountains of fossil evidence."

Transitionals--we don't have every intermediate step, but we don't need every one. It's easy to see the pattern. Unless you're a creationist, in which case you would not believe it even if you saw it.

Now, here is a handsome young fellow for your viewing pleasure.

Fossil: KNM-WT 15000

Site: Nariokotome, West Turkana, Kenya (1)

Discovered By: K. Kimeu, 1984 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.6 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7, 10), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Male (based on pelvis, browridge) (1, 8, 9)

Cranial Capacity: 880 (909 as adult) cc (1)

Information: Most complete early hominid skeleton (80 bones and skull) (1, 8)

Interpretation: Hairless and dark pigmented body (based on environment, limb proportions) (7, 8, 9). Juvenile (9-12 based on 2nd molar eruption and unfused growth plates) (1, 3, 4, 7, 8). Juvenile (8 years old based on recent studies on tooth development) (27). Incapable of speech (based on narrowing of spinal canal in thoracic region) (1)

Nickname: Turkana Boy (1), Nariokotome Boy

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=38

750 posted on 01/27/2006 5:08:37 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)

First, it is entirely likely that evolution occurred as long periods where nothing much happened separated by short periods of intense selection pressure.

In other words, you are speculating.

752 posted on 01/27/2006 5:13:40 PM PST by connectthedots

The one that actually exists.

And out of the thousands worshipped and acknowledged throughout human history, the one that actually exists is...?

To believe that the universe just randomly came about is strongly religious.

Strawman. Who said that it was "random"?

I shouldn't have to. Evidence for God is everywhere.

Yet you refuse to point out any.

754 posted on 01/27/2006 5:16:27 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)

Have you ever read C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity? If not, you ought to read it. It is a very short book.

755 posted on 01/27/2006 5:19:46 PM PST by connectthedots

To: connectthedots

First, it is entirely likely that evolution occurred as long periods where nothing much happened separated by short periods of intense selection pressure.

In other words, you are speculating.

Sure. I have not studied the subject intensely since my Ph.D. exams and that was a good while back. I have not read all the literature in the field since then, as my career is in a different area. But wasn't there a thread a couple of days ago on this same exact subject? And didn't it suggest the same thing I posted to you?

Speculation? At least I have some training in the field. And what is your expertise in the evolutionary sciences that allows you to come forth with such ringing pronouncements? (Other than the creationist websites, that is.)

Isn't the Discovery Institute in your general area? Are you affiliated?

757 posted on 01/27/2006 5:25:46 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)

Watch in the middle of the desert...

Non-sequitur.

758 posted on 01/27/2006 5:36:40 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)

Without an afterlife, everything is futile. You might as well be a mass murderer.

Um...there are plenty of mass murderers who truly believe in an afterlife (72 virgins included free with admission).

759 posted on 01/27/2006 6:00:09 PM PST by Wormwood (Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!)

Um...there are plenty of mass murderers who truly believe in an afterlife (72 virgins included free with admission)

BURNED!

760 posted on 01/27/2006 6:12:22 PM PST by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)

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