Posted on 12/28/2005 1:12:12 PM PST by FerdieMurphy
Maybe that's why it's called "the curse"? :)
Yup, definitely a classic! And I'm half-Jewish myself...
You're a little late to the party, pal; and you are wrong.
Actually, I'm not sure he is wrong.
I've made the same mistake, Howlin, in 'defending' and trying to explain South Park to people who don't 'get it'. It's easy to say "Well they make a point of insulting everyone and everything" I've done it too, even recently. But it occurs to me, that to make that our line of argument is to miss the point ourselves.
Their targets for insult are not random, and not casually thrown around until everyone gets hit just for the sake of hitting everyone. That would imply they have no real creativity, and no real point. I think they do have a point. You may agree or disagree with the point, but I wouldn't argue that they attack equally. In fact, they attack without mercy and without apology those who they think ~deserve~ it. And that's an important distinction.
The actual target for the insult might not be who you might think from seeing only a singular quote or a singular scene. The Mary statue scene is a targeted parody to mock people who think they should flock to these apparitions and pray to them to cure what ails them. That's the target. And that target is effectively and vividly insulted. Not Catholicism, not Christianity, but a particular group within those faiths have been called kooky and their apparitions have been called fake. If you are one of those people, you've been targeted. If you are merely Catholic, you have not been targeted here, but I can understand if the imagery is too much for you.
Along those same lines, Cartman insulting Kyle or becoming a Nazi isn't really an affront to Jews... Kyle is a more sympathetic character than Cartman is. It's a parody of anti-semites. It's Cartman that is the villain, not Kyle.
Some Jewish stereotypes are laughed at, Kyles mother and cousin, for example... but they aren't "Judaism". They are caricatures of an American type.
People who are those stereotypes might be offended. But the stereotypes exist. And, over the long term, I think the portrayals are sympathetic. Kyles mother and Kyles cousin, and Kyle himself, are not evil characters. Cartman is :~D
So I'm arguing from a different point of view now. Let's first make sure we recognize who is really targeted, and only then can we really argue the merits of the point that was made.
Kyle's mom is a nattering parody of every neurotic Jewish mother sterotype I've ever seen.
Agreed :~D And she's great.
No, see, you don't get it. See, that was humor, because those are all phrases which are used on the show as insults, and he used them to insult you! See, the humor is that....the show words.. were used... [sigh] Oh, forget it. I hate having to explain jokes to people who have no clue or sense of humor!
Their pomposity is (almost) unnerving. :)
No, see, THIS one is funny, because it uses a turd sandwich and a giant douche as metaphors for our political process, in which we will even vote for a turd, if he's OUR turd.....
Darn, there I go again, trying to explain....
And.. even the giant douche wasn't the worst douche we could get. If the biggest douche in the universe was running for office, it would have been a turd sandwich vs. John Edward.
Frightening, isn't it? I, too, have to wonder if they aren't plants...
"I've made the same mistake, Howlin, in 'defending' and trying to explain South Park to people who don't 'get it'."
Yeah, but the problem with that statement is that I DO 'get it' and am a huge fan of the show!
The rest of your post, though, is spot-on.
I figured that, actually :~D
I watched it too! I thoroughly enjoyed it and had many great laughs that I would have missed if not for this thread.
I am amazed that people are whining about a show that espouses conservative values in a way that is appealing to today's society. It is the perfect juxtaposition to to our liberal universities.
I think it is fabulous and genius!
As for the extremists on here, it only affirms what I have always suspected, they are incapable of critical thought; thus they miss the entire point of SouthPark.
Please ad me to the ping list please!
My favorite scene in that episode is where both candidates are saying "You're a giant douche!" "No, you're a giant douche!" "No, you really are a giant douche!" "No, you are!". Perfect parody of politicians in action!
So did Jesus. But Jesus didn't make mockery of His Mother. South Park does.
I'd argue, in fact I have argued in my numerous posts to you on this issue, that the ones making a mockery of Mary are those who worship bizarre apparitions of her, in everything from tortilla chips to moldy window panes to bloody tears reportedly found coming from statues.
Agree or disagree on that.
FWIW, I don't blame the bishops and the church for being upset about this! I wouldn't expect any less! That's how they are supposed to react. But at the same time, the point raised might still have merit to many.
That's your perspective and put-down of Catholics and their beliefs, including - one could assume - the Marian apparitions at Lourdes, Knock, Fatima, Guadalupe and elsewhere.
Comedy that derisively mocks people's religious beliefs didn't use to be considered legitimate "comedy." You'd never have found the Golden Age comedians - Berle, Benny, Hope, Burns - mocking people for their religious beliefs. It's a sign of our cultural decline that such bad manners (to use the most generous characterization) is now considered mainstream "entertainment."
The Sixties cultural revolution didn't invent vulgarity, it just mainstreamed it. To use an analogy, it's kinda like a family bringing the toilet into the living room.
Steve Allen to Robin Williams: Vulgarity Not Necessary to be Funny
By Bruce Sullivan
CNS Staff Writer
25 May, 2000
(CNSNews.com) - Robin Williams is a gifted performer who has no need to resort to barnyard humor like he did Wednesday night in front of President Clinton and the first lady at a Democratic fundraiser in Washington, says fellow comedian and actor Steve Allen.
"Many small-time comics would get no favorable reaction at all without the shock laughs that are, sad to say, the automatic response to four-letter-word material, but Robin is richly, naturally funny," said Allen, who founded the original Tonight Show during television's golden age in the 1950's. Allen is the National Honorary Chairman of the Parents Television Council, a division of the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com.
At the DNC fundraiser, which garnered $26 million for the party and was carried live on cable television's C-SPAN, Williams used foul language and resorted to mild scatological humor that a Clinton adviser described later as "rather unfortunate."
It was also unnecessary, said Allen, who compared Williams to the greatest wits of the 20th century - Mark Twain, Will Rogers, Stan Laurel, Oliver Hardy, and Charlie Chaplin.
But those great funnymen, plus Williams' admitted comedic role model Jonathan Winters, who, like Williams, is a master at off-the-cuff, improvised humor, never resorted to profanity or vulgarity, said Allen.
"None of these beloved gentlemen were personal saints," said Allen. "But in addition to their comedic gifts they also had good manners. Comedians generally address audiences as 'ladies and gentlemen.' Somehow we must impress upon them that most true ladies and gentlemen do not appreciate tasteless and vulgar humor."
According to Williams, children were present at last night's affair. At one point the hyperactive entertainer joked, "Whoa, there's a child in the front row; he's learning new words."
C-SPAN officials said that the event was carried live, but will probably not be rebroadcast.
IT'S REALLY SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF FREEPERS ENJOY THE SAME KIND OF VULGARITY THAT CLINTON INFLICTED ON THE NATION AS HE DEGRADED OUR CULTURE AND ATTEMPTED TO DESTROY OUR NATIONAL SOUL.
The Clintons probably thought it was "unfortunate" that Williams' obscenities were only "mild".
Like some of the freepers on this thread, the Clintons sneered at "holier than thou" types - "prudes" and "uptight" people who believe in standards and class and traditional values.
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