Posted on 12/15/2005 10:33:58 AM PST by Eaglewatcher
It makes no difference. The census 2000 counted more than 282 million people of which more than 264 million were citizens. If anything the census probably missed citizens too, which means the number is low. I know i was almost missed by the census count, but got caught by a census worker who stopped by.
Believe me there are some illegal aliens in the Census figures (in fact, many). You claim this is not so merely shows you are not aware of how the numbers are generated.
Yes, there were 9 million illegals counted by the census. Probably another 9 million that avoided the census.
Nope it is a refund plain and simple. there is no entitlement without appropriations and there are no appropriations for the FairTax prebate.
It goes to "bums on the street" (your wording) because they pay sales tax when they buy taxable things. the money is taken from them just as well as from you. Perhaps they should be bitching to high heaven about YOU getting THEIR money. Either way - that's just foolishness.
It is a refund very much like the income tax refund ... or do you call that an "entitlement", too??? After all, those folks are "entitled" to their refund, right???
It is a refund since an entitlement is a government program (meaning that it must be created by law and have ongoing separate appropriations to fund it. The FairTax is not such a program but a tax law. They are different things.
As I showed you earlier, there were 20 million illegals from south of the border, not 9.
I also pointed out that there would be a good number of additional non-qualifying people in the household categories you used. You surely aren't arrogant/ignorant enough to think that the Census Bureau figures are 100% accurate and tally all instances of non-citizens ... or do you??? Have you ever worked for the Census Bureau???
It is a refund very much like the income tax refund ...You're such a fraud.
First you get all giddy about everyone receiving a "prebate" now you say it's a "refund" ...It can't be both.
How does the government know how much to "refund" a "qualified family" that buys only used goods or are you now saying they won't get their "prebate" because they didn't pay any taxes?
You have showed nothing. You haven't showed those people were counted by the census. In fact you know those people were not counted. So it doesn't matter. What is your point? To post mindless babble to bump threads? You are pitiful
I also pointed out that there would be a good number of additional non-qualifying people in the household categories you used.
The only non-qualifying people are illegals and we already subtracted them out. What, should we subtract them out twice? You are such a phoney. You like to double count everything to make your numbers look the way you want. What a load of crap and you know it.
You surely aren't arrogant/ignorant enough to think that the Census Bureau figures are 100% accurate and tally all instances of non-citizens ... or do you??? Have you ever worked for the Census Bureau???
Who said that, you lying sac. However if anything, the census UNDERCOUNTED citizens. You continual posting of babble and lies is unbelievable.
Man! Only one day later and here it goes again. Y'all are begging for the shower huh?
Most people (roughly 85%) are enumerated on what's called the short form (about 6 pages long) which asks no questions relating to citizenship or legal residency at all. The rest of the people are enumerated on a long form (about 40 pages long) which, while more intrusive in asking things like how many people ride to work with in the morning and what time you leave for work (in a census?????), also has no provision to prevent anyone being enumerated to duck any intrusive questions by merely not answering a particular question. There is no penalty (up to a point) for not answering nor is the enumerator empowered to challenge the answers given (or to change them for the most part).
So in view of the mechanics of how people are counted, your 20 million PLUS illegal aliens ARE included and not just the 8 million you envision. The Bear Stearns study on illegal aliens uses very good methodoligy (far better than the nonexistent methodology of the Census Bureas guesses).
Note that the data from the 20 million derivation comes from 2004 and earlier and the number is undoubtedly much greater now with the rate of illegal immigration that has been going on for years now. The point is that undoubtedly even the 20 million figure is too low.
This little educational dissertation for you (though you certainly don't deserve it in view of your childlike insults and continual sniping) is to help you realize that there are, indeed, many non-qualifying individuals included in the census figures since there is no attempt to qualify the head count in any manner meaningful to the prebate qualification (aside from an APPROXIMATION of the number residing in the 3 household categories you've fastened upon). Those non-qualifiers are also included in your numbers helping to make them, clearly, WRONG!!
If anything, you are the one doing the double counting and cross counting and you are too ignorant to realize it. Wise up. The census is not a count only of citizens - not at all as I have just described to you. It covers all sorts of strange folk - and even catches and counts some visitors from other countries.
The warning was for everyone on the rhread, including pigdog. I was responding to a post where he referred to me as 'arrogant/ignorant'. Go bitch at pigdog.
And I substracted out 18 million, not 8 million. I have no idea why you keep saying 8 million. I subtracted out 18 million. At the time I thought all non-Citizens did not qualify, but if I understand AG correctly, all legal residents qualify. Besides, I really think a good portion of those illegals were not counted.
"Didn't you hear me?"
I laughed out loud at that one!
"... the population number does include some non-citizens which the census puts at 18 million, with about 9 million being illegal ..."
As I've just pointed out to you the census figure DOES include illegal aliens (and many other non citizens) but does not classify them as such so that your claim of 9 million is bogus. The Bear Stearns study is clearly more correct for illegal aliens at 20 million (but even that is undoubtedly too low since the data was taken from 2004 or before).
"Besides, I really think a good portion of those illegals were not counted. "
You seem unable to understand plain English. I said that illegal aliens (and other non-qualifiers) WERE counted - but not classified as "illegal aliens", etc. You can think whatever you like no matter how wrong it is, but your statement just quoted is absolutely wrong.
And you are a lying fool. I know you read the very next sentence where I showed the multiplication. It was 18 million I multiplied by. You can't tell the truth if your life depended on it.
Yep, 18 million is what I used.
You don't even know what those words mean let alone notice how they were used in the subject post.
Instead you use any pretext to hurl insults and belittlement at others and continually so in spite of the Moderator trying to shut you up.
It would be impossible to belittle you anymore than what you have already done yourself.
"And you are a lying fool."
... and yet it is YOU, not I, who misstates what the census collects in the way of information. I pointed out to you that the most recent census did not collect illegal alien NOR non-citizen data as part of the enumeration and yet you continue to undercount the number of illegal aliens (for one thing) which are clearly 20 million or more using something far more rigorous that the guess of the Census Bureau.
In addition the non-citizen data is likewise nothing but an absolute guess since the census did not collect that information either. The number you use for illegal aliens is low by more that 11 million as I have repeated pointed out to you.
The upshot of all this is that you have overstated your numbers considerably and yet continually call others "lying fools" (and use even more graphic descriptions). Your numbers are both pointless AND wrong since the amount of money (whatever it might be which is certainly less that what you "calculate" with phony statistics) involved is neither an entitlement nor a cost to the government. It is a refund of sales taxes paid just as the April 15 tax refunds are a return of tax paid.
You have merely a tempest in a teapot and it'll likely boil over and burn you unless you stop the instults and name-calling.
Oh puh_leeeez. It was post #10 were you started in the the Status Quo Lover and Lie crap. You can try to rewrite history, but a look at the record shows the truth.
Whose "truth" ... yours??? Some "truth"!!!
Post #10 was to Eaglewatcher, not you ... and it was remarking about the lead-in to the thread which was rebutting a lie-laden article originally posted on another thread. And Status Quo Lover is a generic description - if the shoe fits ...
Post #10 was not in any way directed at you (unless perhaps you ARE a Status Quo Lover) - or are you trying to audition as Moderator??? Perhaps you just needed an excuse - any excuse - to start name-calling.
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