John MacArthur Booted Off Bible Broadcasting Network for Preaching Election

Monergism.com ^ | 08/23/2004

[P-Marlowe]

I see little genuine sacrificial serving of God.

Is that necessary for salvation?

What "sacrificical serving of God" can you boast of?

And why are you looking at others?

[connectthedots]

Likewise, if God sovereignly chose to give us free will, whether to worship or reject Him, how would that disprove His sovereignty?

It wouldn't, but is would disprove Calvinist predestination. According to the GRPL, God's sovereignty is total only to the point where it conflicts with their view of predestination. If absolute predestination is not true, all of GRPL Calvinism must fall.

[P-Marlowe]

Isn't it all of God?

Interesting point. Is MacArthur himself complaining that he was pulled off, or is it just his Arminian leaning fan base that is complaining. After all, MacArthur apparently seems to think that Romans 13 requires that we submit to the decisions of the powers that be, since they are ordained of God and that to speak against them is to complain against God.

If MacArthur believes in his Calvinism, he should rejoice that God's will was done in yanking him off the air. (of course when you get down to brass tacks, when bad things happen to good Calvinists, very few Calvinists actually put their beliefs into practice. They complain and protest just like us non-Calvinists who believe that our prayers actually might change things).

[Buggman]

Instead, since man has "free will", we have reduce God down into a "homeboy" rather than our leader and champion.

Huh? That hardly follows. The fact that I can choose to rebel against my rightful sovereign does not suddenly make him my peer.

[kevao]

there is no human answer to the sovereignty of God and the "free will of man".

I believe God is sovereign; but you're free to disagree.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

http://www.angelfire.com/il3/timemachine/midis/willis.wav

If the slipper fits, you're Cinderella!

[topcat54]

His view does fit in with his Calvinist view of the world.

Calvinism is not fatalism, which seems to be what MacArthur is advocating (if your analysis is correct).

For a better, Calvinistic reading of civil government and the responsibility of subjects/citizens, I suggest you read Lex, Rex: A Dispute For the Just Prerogative of King and People by Samuel Rutherford.

[Alex Murphy]

drstevej was banned for obvious reasons and he did it to himself.

One could say you were helpless but predestined to lose every one of your RICO court cases, and helpless but predestined to have your ex-wife divorce you. You, ctd, were the poor helpless victim of God's unjust will as He crushed your hopes and dreams under His Divine Heel. And thsi would be your idea of what hyper-Calvinism believes.

Or, these events could be all of your free will. One could then say that all of this can be totally (or to be generous, partly) your fault. You could have prevented the divorce, and won the court cases, but you failed to effectively use your God-given free will and God-given talents, and you just totally screwed everything up big time. God, the respecter of your free will, sat back and watched you flounder and gasp like a carp having stupidly flipped himself out of the water. And this is what your free-will gospel teaches.

Enjoy the holiday weekend, ctd. Either way, you're going to need it.

[topcat54]

Likewise, if God sovereignly chose to give us free will, whether ...

Just so we are clear, Calvinists do not teach that our wills are not free because God didn't give us free wills. Calvinists teach that our wills are not free because of the fall.

Westminter Confession of Faith
CHAPTER IX
Of Free Will

I. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined to good, or evil.

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God; but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation: so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin; and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only.

This chapter is very similar to the Augustinian and Lutheran views of man's will.

[xzins]

They complain and protest just like us non-Calvinists who believe that our prayers actually might change things

:>)

For those with the "script-writer theory," your point is well taken.

[Uri’el-2012]

fishtank; sheltonmac
Speaking of Dr. Steve, are there people who have been FR banned in the past but who have been restored?

32 posted on 09/02/2004 8:27:30 AM MDT by fishtank

I have been banned twice and restored twice.

I just consider the following:

NAsbU Matthew 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. 5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. 6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. 9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. 13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The fact that I choose to rebel against my rightful sovereign does not suddenly make him my peer.

You're right. It makes you His superior.

It's either all by the hand of God, according to His holy purpose which He ordained from before the foundation of the world, or none of it is.

Dead men cannot "choose" God. Like with Lazarus, only God can breath life into the stone-cold corpse and give a new heart to the fallen sinner.

Faith is the result of God's grace; not the cause of it. Or else man and his choices do indeed become God's better.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:8-10.

  

[Revelation 911]

you're Cinderella!

moreso Cinderfella LOL

[connectthedots]

One could say you were helpless but predestined to lose every one of your RICO court cases

The final chapter is yet to be written. All in God's timing.

[Revelation 911]

Calvinism is not fatalism

sarcasm tags or no ?

[topcat54]

For those with the "script-writer theory," your point is well taken.

Unlike Arminians, Calvinists don't prayer based on outcome. We pray because we are commanded to pray. Of course, unlike Arminians, we believe God can actually do something to bring a person to salvation. He is not confounded and prevented from accomplishing salvation by man's "free will".

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Or, ctd, you could realize that your entire life, like Alex's and mine and everyone's, is unfolding exactly as God ordained, for HIS glory and not ours.

That should give us eternal hope. Because God loves his elect he will not let any of us suffer needlessly. Every pleasure and pain is brought to us to strengthen our faith that He who created us is indeed the same Savior who redeemed us.

From before the foundation of the world.

[connectthedots]

Or, ctd, you could realize that your entire life, like Alex's and mine and everyone's, is unfolding exactly as God ordained, for HIS glory and not ours.

I would not go that far, but I would agree that God has a plan for the life of each of his chilfren and that God can even use our past disobedience and sins in such a way as to fulfill some purpose he has for our lives. I can see that in my own life, but I would hardly say that God wanted me to make some of my poor choices in the past. Whatever I accomplish is for his glory, not mine.

[stop_killing_unborn_babies]

Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands -- remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Eph. 2) {Notice that Paul calls the older covenant a "covenant of promise". Paul bring gentiles close to the "commonwealth of Israel" by their faith in Christ. Why would he confuse people with this sort of language unless to make a point about the true meaning of "Israel"?}

Thank you.

Paul and the entire NT uses the exact same covanental and ecclesiastical language as the OT, most pronounced in Hebrews. Paul additionally says in Romans, "Not all are Israle that are of Israel(meaning the unbelieving Jews)".

Also the writers of the NT apply the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants to the Church, including Gentiles, as well as the Messianic promises. The early Church was covenantal, as was the Church until Dispensationalism came along in the 19th century, a real late comer in theology.

[stop_killing_unborn_babies]

Romans 9

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."[2] 8That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

What do you suppose Paul is talking about there?