Chesterton on Determinism, Calvinism, and Commentary Thereon

Nevski

[Dumb_Ox]

I have yet to tire of reading Chesterton.

I've visited your weblog before, but I didn't notice that you are apparently near the Denver area. Do you know about the Denver Chesterton Society?

[Revelation 911]

from French lawyer to Reformation theologian to facist Genevan politician - may not have been so great. But the reverberations from his theology echo through history to our present state where Christianity may be entirely subsumed by his spiritual heirs (or "errs", as the case may be)."

dang - thems fightin words -

Hey Marlowe - arent you regularly buggy whipped and maligned for being a smarts sheepskin kind of guy ?

You should be donning red neener asbestos garb for this fly studded flamebait, nevski ;-P

[P-Marlowe]

Boy this article is probably going to get the GRPL's goat better than a loaded deck of Servetus cards.

Corin, you got some popcorn?

[Corin Stormhands]

In the entirety of his Institutes of the Christian Religion, the word "love" only appears twice, and both times it is in reference to the love we owe God.

Fascinating. Once again we get back to the concept of WHO God IS. If this statement is correct, it appears Calvin didn't really know.

We're gonna need a LOT of popcorn...

[topcat54]

Boy this article is probably going to get the GRPL's goat better than a loaded deck of Servetus cards.

Why? Chesterton was an unenlightened papist. Why would you expect anything else than for him to rail against biblical (Calvinist) theology?

[Religion Moderator]

Just a word of caution: I'll be watching this one.

[topcat54]

"In the entirety of his Institutes of the Christian Religion, the word "love" only appears twice, and both times it is in reference to the love we owe God."

If this statement is correct, it appears Calvin didn't really know.

It is not. Chesterton was either ignorant of the Institutes or was being purposely deceptive.

E.g., Calvin in many place quotes from the Word of God regarding His love towards us (twice in III:1:2 alone).

[r9etb]

Fascinating. Once again we get back to the concept of WHO God IS. If this statement is correct, it appears Calvin didn't really know.

Heh heh.... Like any of us does.... ;-)

The articles are a bit strident, but their underlying point appears to be correct. Note, however, that the Calvinists do claim to know "WHO God IS," and precisely at that. What's interesting (as I've found on some recent threads) is how resistant Calvinists are to admitting the logical implications of their concept of God.

I must admit that I'm losing interest in debating with them -- can I borrow some of your popcorn?

[Alex Murphy]

"Calvin's great heresy, then, is divesting God of Love. In the entirety of his Institutes of the Christian Religion, the word "love" only appears twice, and both times it is in reference to the love we owe God. Without Love, Calvin reduces God to brute power concepts and legalistic approaches."

That's what makes Calvin "the greatest heretic in Christian history"???

[Revelation 911]

"God as the active agent in salvation ceases to be the transendent Being of passionate love for humanity, abiding patiently with each person until they eventually find their solace in Him... Instead, He is replaced by a version of Himself that chooses who is saved and who is damned without rhyme or reason except to exert His own power. Everything is oriented towards God's glory, His every action to assert His glory, our every religious devotion to praise that glory. He is an egotistical God, absolutely corrupted by His own absolute power."

I do have to pipe up and say whats the problem with this ? Isnt it all for Gods glory ? - If my fathers cancer brings about a conversion experience - Isnt it for Gods glory -

Isn't my renunciation of sin to the glory of God ? -

Isnt the Crucifixion itself to the glory of Gods love for us ?

<>< neener ><>

[HarleyD]

"'Nevertheless he is wrong. But if we attempt to trace his error in exact terms, we shall not find it quite so easy as we had supposed…In the same manner, one might respond to the Calvinist that their theology make a quite tidy circle, but it is a very small circle."

This is the typical anti-Calvinist response I continually see on many anti-Calvinist sites and, quite frankly, it always puzzled me. It seems like a spurious argument. In other words Chesterson is saying “We can’t figure out where there's an error but we know it must be here somewhere. After all, we all know God is Love."

Again, no Bible citations. He could have at least thrown in John 3:16.

Lamentations 3:37-38, "Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?"

[xzins]

Seems like another insistence on God's Love over God's Power. At the same time it seeks to find inroads against Calvinism's tight logical construct....by raising questions about constructs that are sometimes too tight and too logical.

I had chaplain duties for about a year at a veteran's hospital many years ago. One of my assigned wards was the locked psychiatric. One man had convinced himself that he had committed the unpardonable sin...that he had blasphemed the Holy Ghost. There was no talking to him about confession by either me or the psychiatric staff.

He'd determined the definition of such a thing, he had committed the act forbidden by his definition, and there was no talking him out of it.

It is true that he was locked up in a logic of his own making.

BTW, Did you write this? If so, you have some excellent writing skills.

[lockeliberty]

Hidilly-ho, Neighbor!

[Corin Stormhands]

can I borrow some of your popcorn?

Help yourself.

[topcat54]

Seems like another insistence on God's Love over God's Power.

In addition to men, God created angels with free wills. Some of those angels chose to rebel against God, and God cast them from His presence. Eventually they will, along with their leader, be cast into the lake of fire.

Was it an unloving act on the part of God for Him to not provide those fallen angels an opportunity for salvation?

[xzins]

Actually, we don't know that do we?

We know that there is punishment, but there are some unrevealed things....the 7 thunders are an example.

[stop_killing_unborn_babies]

E.g., Calvin in many place quotes from the Word of God regarding His love towards us (twice in III:1:2 alone).Obviously Chesterton was either very ignorant or being purposefully deceiving, because if there is anything that Calvin preached and taught about God it is His great Love for His people, as is the great Love between the Persons of the Godhead.

Every doctrine Calvin mined from Scripture was a doctrine of God's Love.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***One man had convinced himself that he had committed the unpardonable sin... and there was no talking him out of it.
***

Maybe he had committed the unpardonable sin.

[stop_killing_unborn_babies]

Talk about heresy, Chesterton's heresy of unconditional love without exception for each and every human is heresy.

"God as the active agent in salvation ceases to be the transendent Being of passionate love for humanity, abiding patiently with each person until they eventually find their solace in Him...

Chesterton clearly has never studied God's Word, or else he would know what Paul taught in Romans, that God turns the unregenerate over to a reprobate mind.