Posted on 08/20/2004 5:43:21 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
Looks more like you straining to produce yet another one of your interminable posts.
I concede the stupidity prize to you.
Do you mean that you, CapnR and the Brigade Commander are not the same person? Don't you all share half a brain?
Nope. You won it fair and square. Your #2677 wins the prize.
Nope. That is definitely you squeezing out another thought.
Non-Sequitur's source, boondocksnet.com, is so noteworthy, I will present the linked page which he is apparently too bashful to present. In all your excitement, you turned Jim Zwick into Edward Zwick.
http://www.boondocksnet.com//ai/masters/
Anti-Imperialist Writings by Edgar Lee Masters
By Jim ZwickAlthough he began his career as a lawyer, Edgar Lee Masters (1869-1950) is well-known today as a poet, his Spoon River Anthology still appreciated by many. Unlike most of the anti-imperialists, Masters opposed the Spanish-American War. "I had read enough in the papers to know that war was avoidable," he wrote in his autobiography, Across Spoon River (1936), "and I resolved to have nothing to do with it." He was roused to action by the annexation of the Philippines and the beginning of the new war there. He threw himself into studying the history of the Constitution and the United States' republican form of government, and within the next few years wrote a play, Maximilian (1902), a volume of poetry, and a series of essays on imperialism. During the 1900 presidential campaign, he wrote numerous essays and speeches opposing imperialism and supporting the campaign of William Jennings Bryan, the anti-imperialist Democratic candidate. In October of 1900, The Public, a Chicago-based weekly edited by the single taxer and anti-imperialist, Louis F. Post, called Masters' pamphlet, The Constitution and Our Insular Possessions (1900), "the best presentation of the Philippine question, in its constitutional and other legal aspects, that has yet come to our attention."
His literary and political efforts received favorable reviews from the anti-imperialists but hurt his law practice. His isolation led him to accept an offer to become the law partner of Clarence Darrow, one of the most prominent civil rights lawyers of the time. He explained in his autobiography:
I was known over Chicago and Illinois by this time as the author of the constitutional articles and political essays published in the Chronicle, and in Tom Watson's Jeffersonian Magazine; and also as the author of a pamphlet entitled "The Constitution and Our Insular Possessions," which had made the conservative lawyers of Chicago indignant at me. Thus my life had moved in such a way that I was unwelcome among the lawyers who were doing a large business, and there was no place for me to go but to the radicals.
While in practice with Darrow, Masters collected some of the essays written during and shortly after the 1900 campaign and published them as The New Star Chamber and Other Essays (1904). He published his early anti-imperialist poems in The Blood of the Prophets (1905) under the pseudonym Dexter Wallace. Darrow had been a vice president of the Chicago Liberty Meeting of April 1899 that led to the formation of the Central Anti-Imperialist League in Chicago, and he would later join the national committee of the All-America Anti-Imperialist League (1928). In 1904, Masters signed the Philippine Independence Committee's petition to the Republican and Democratic national conventions calling for the ultimate independence of the Philippines. His opposition to imperialism continued for many years. He returned to the turn-of-the-century events in the Philippines in his Spoon River Anthology (1915) and a verse play, Manila (1930), and in 1916 he reminded the country that it was the seizure of the Philippines that made it difficult to stay neutral as warfare raged in Europe. The Spanish-American War "changed the form of our government," he wrote in his autobiography, and entrance into the World War "would solidify that change."
I positively cannot understand why you left out what Zwick actually wrote about the All-American Anti-Imperialist League. That is at the following boondocknet.com link.
http://www.boondocksnet.com/ai/ail/allamer.html
The All-America Anti-Imperialist League
by Jim Zwick* * *
Although it was started by the Workers (Communist) Party, many leading liberals and peace advocates within the United States signed on as members of its national committee, including the lawyer, Clarence Darrow; Roger Baldwin of the the American Civil Liberties Union; Freda Kirchwey and Lewis S. Gannett of The Nation; W. E. B. Du Bois, the leading African American intellectual; William Pickens of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP); Robert Morss Lovett of the New Republic; and Scott Nearing. Only one former officer of the Anti-Imperialist League, S. A. Stockwell, joined the new organization's national committee. Stockwell was the first president of the Minneapolis Anti-Imperialist League (1899), a nationally prominent leader of the single tax movement, and for many years a member of the Minnesota House of Representatives.
The League reached beyond middle class and intellectual circles for its officers to develop a multi-racial and multi-class coalition. Undoubtedly the League's most noteworthy member was Socrates Sandino, half brother of Augusto Sandino, the leader of the Nicaraguan revolution. Socrates Sandino made a national speaking tour for the League and gained considerable attention from the U.S. media. In 1934, both he and his half-brother Augusto were assassinated in Nicaragua. Besides the prominent people named on its letterhead, the League's leadership included representatives of the Filipino Association of Chicago, the Filipino Workers Club, the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, Sun Yat Sen Lodge, Machinists Lodge, the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners, Jewish Marxian Youth Alliance, Teachers' Union, Sociedad Mutulista, and other labor, national, and reform organizations. The All-America Anti-Imperialist League was replaced in 1933 by the American League Against War and Fascism.
I never knew that the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners was a Communist organization. Good catch, Non-Seq. As well, I knew the ACLU was on the left, but I never realized it was as far left as The Brigade. I never knew that the NAACP was as radical, whacko, liberal left as The Brigade either. The Machinists Lodge as well. Who knew? Thanks for pointing this all out, Non-Sequitur. </sarcasm>
How about your Brigade Commander? How deep do you have to dredge to find him? Your fearless leader.
Gee. I'll bet if you had to pick between being John Wilkes Booth or your Brigade Commander, you probably would not be able to decide.
Depends on whose property was to be protected and whose was not. From Kerbey's book:
District Attorney Joab Houghton proved an able ally to Carlton in his campaign to stamp out the effectiveness of rebel sympathizers. Mass-produced indictments were served against twenty-six prominent citizens by the fall of 1962, accusing them of having, "conspired, composed, imagined, and designed to stir up and incite insurrection, rebellion and revolt and to levy war against the government, with Henry H. Sibley and other false traitors." Some of the trials resulting from Houghton's reign of terror dragged on until 1867, though most of the defendants lost their property by confiscation ... long before that date.
Yeah, without addressing so much as a single word of what Masters wrote.
Do you deny that's what they wrote about Masters, or that it is a correct assessment?
It was a partisan and biased assessment of him, specifically to call his book on Lincoln "prejudiced" as if to indicate its position was taken without prior knowledge of Lincoln. Nothing could be further from the truth as Masters' position on Lincoln is thoroughly reasoned out and, whether you agree with it or not, built upon evidence that he offers to support it. The only "fault" with his Lincoln book in the minds of people like you is the fact that it's harshly critical of Lincoln. That does not mean it is without factual validity or intellectual rigor, but since you refuse to address its factual validity and prefer instead to throw bombs at Masters' character, you will likely never know that.
I could just as easily say, and with substantially greater accuracy, that Harry Jaffa's books are meant for the Lincoln idolaters. But that is not enough of a basis to reject his arguments outright. His arguments may be and have been rejected on the basis of failures within their construction and failures to mesh with historical evidence, not the simple fact that he's a Lincoln worshipping hack which only explains the incidence of his books. If you wish to say an equal and opposite hatred of Lincoln is true for Masters, I can't stop you but the burden is still upon you to discredit or rebut his arguments if you wish to dismiss them.
Nice try, but its commonplace in civil war dispatches for a lower officer to claim that the other side did X because they're "scared of him" or whatever. Find an account from Sibley's side of things and see how the two mesh.
Also, let me note at this time the internal inconsistency of your orders. You previously claimed that 50 wounded and sick were found in El Paso. This order claimes three times that number in "Franklin," which was another name for El Paso (after the nearby Franklin Mountains). So which is it?
Quoth the non-sequitur: "Squack! Tu quoque! Tu quoque!"
Oh, and BTW, Masters wrote for H.L. Mencken and is almost universally recognized as having political views that were "Jeffersonian." Says Matthew Norman in a University of Illinois publication:
"Masters thought Jefferson was the greatest American statesman, and he viewed American history as a continuing struggle between Jeffersonian and Hamiltonian principles. This Manichean interpretation of history is evident in Masters's writing as early as 1904, when he published a collection of political essays entitled The New Star Chamber. In those essays, Masters praises Jefferson as the man "who gave form and purpose to the republic," while Hamilton is condemned as a monarchist whose policies amounted to nothing less than "imperialism."14 As early as 1904, Masters feared that the republic of Jefferson had decayed into a corrupt Hamiltonian empire."
His politics were also characterized by a belief in isolationism - traditionally a conservative viewpoint. So, non-seq, are you telling me that Jefferson, H.L. Mencken, and all the right wing isolationists of the early 20th century were communists?
The All American Anti-Imperialist League did indeed have some communist affiliations, however it was not an exclusively communist organization and attracted many isolationists among its ranks, isolation historically being a conservative position. Aside from it, everything we know about Masters' politics says nothing even remotely similar to your guilt-by-association trip with communism but rather identifies him as a rigidly ideological Jeffersonian and associate of the libertarian-minded humorist H.L. Mencken.
Contrast that with Noam McPherson, who hangs out with communists, participates actively in a communist political party, and espouses far left political beliefs through and through. In short, non-seq, you've got nothing.
In other words, the even leading communists in the United States at the time, Eugene V. Debs and his followers, did not consider the Anti-Imperialist League to be a communist organization. Yet you insist that it was on which basis?
Well if it isn't the tu quoque boss himself. I was wondering when you would show up.
So I'll take this post to mean that in GOPcapitalistland it is perfectly OK for someone to be a Communist so long as he has got his head right on the Lincoln issue? Something I had long suspected but it's nice to have it confirmed.
But it was founded by the Communist Workers Party. Guilt by association being your criteria for other historians and all. It opposed the U.S. occupation of Nicaragua and supported the insurrection led by Augusto Sandino, does the term 'Sandanista' ring any bells?
...but rather identifies him as a rigidly ideological Jeffersonian and associate of the libertarian-minded humorist H.L. Mencken.
His fellow steering committee members included Clarence Darrow, Roger Baldwin of the the ACLU, Freda Kirchwey and Lewis S. Gannett of "The Nation", noted conservative W. E. B. Du Bois, William Pickens of the NAACP, Robert Morse Lovett of the New Republic, and that right wing mainstay Scott Nearing (who was protesting American imperialism into the Viet Nam war days). Solid libertarians all, no doubt.
It may have been, but the organization moved away from the communist party - so much so that Eugene V. Debs and his followers were trying to devise a way to take the organization back in 1928.
Guilt by association being your criteria for other historians and all.
Incorrect. My research on McPherson revealed him to be an active affiliate of a communist political party itself, not an organization that it at one time controlled many years prior. It also revealed him to have radical leftist political beliefs on modern issues such as the war, affirmative action, the and presidential elections. Masters, by contrast, is known to have aligned politically with H.L. Mencken and is universally recognized to have been a rigidly ideological Jeffersonian.
It opposed the U.S. occupation of Nicaragua and supported the insurrection led by Augusto Sandino, does the term 'Sandanista' ring any bells?
Yeah, Sandino was assassinated in 1934. The Sandinistas were not formed for almost 30 years after that in 1961 and chose Sandino's name as part of their title, Frente Sandinista de Liberacion Nacional, to arouse nationalist sentiments.
Now wait just a minute there, non-seq. I just did several web searches for Masters' name with "all american anti-imperialist league" and got zero hits. Shorten that to simply "american anti-imperialist league" though and you get several.
The variation that Masters is associated with is described here:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/history/2004/0730briefhistory.htm
It too has a list of "celebrity" members who joined up in addition to Masters, including:
President Grover Cleveland
Charles Francis Adams
Andrew Carnegie
William Dean Howells
Mark Twain
Jane Addams
John Dewey
and yes, William Jennings Bryan
Surely you aren't going to tell me that Grover Cleveland was a communist, are you non-seq?
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