An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum

Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

[#3Fan]

"I am no admirer of Jeff Davis - I am a Yankee, full of Yankee prejudices, but I think it is wicked to lie. I was with the party that captured Jeff Davis; I saw the whole transaction from the beginning. I now say that Jeff Davis did not have on at the time he was taken any such garment as is worn by women. He did have over his shoulders a water proof article of clothing, something like a havelock. He was not in the least concealed. He wore a hat and did not carry a pail, bucket or kettle of any kind. I defy any person to find a single officer or soldier who was present at the capture to say that he was disguised in woman's clothes, or that his wife acted in any way unlady-like or undignified on the occasion." Capt. James H. Parker. A union officer.

LOL Revise away!

[#3Fan]

As far as I'm concerned, he's probably a decent guy.

In this spirit of brotherhood, you're not as insane as most of your compatriots. :^)

But he epitomizes exactly what the South seceded from.

I'm proud to be aligned with Lincoln in this regard.

[GOPcapitalist]

See post 319. The pet lunatic apparently thinks that you only converse with me when he prompts you to. I bet Jessica Lynch wrote a book only because he prompted her to as well.

[#3Fan]

"The mere expression of “the irrepressible conflict” was credited first to Mr. Lincoln, and then to Mr. Seward, and then to the Senator from Ohio; but this doctrine of perfectibility in the people of the free States is of New England origin. It began before your Revolution; long before that. It began when Charles lost his throne. I think it began before his time. Old John Knox started it and then it got down into England. They helped Cromwell to cut off their King's head. After that, better than even the Puritans, they were called Independents; then they were called fifth-monarchy men; and then Cromwell had to run them out of England; and then they went over to Holland, and the Dutch let them alone, but would not let them persecute anybody else; and then they got on that ill-fated ship called the Mayflower and landed on Plymouth Rock. And from that time to this, they have been kicking up a dust generally, and making a mess whenever they could put their fingers in the pie. They confederated with the other states to save themselves from the power of old King George III; and no sooner than they had gotten rid of him than they turned to persecuting their neighbors. Having got rid of the Indians, and witches, and Baptists, and Quakers in their country; after selling us our negroes for the love of gold, they began stealing them back for the love of God. That is the history as well as I understand it." - Sen. Louis T. Wigfall, March 2, 1861

We'll not be overlooked. lol (The Mayflower is a possiblity)

[#3Fan]

You state this three times in one reply. Time to show your evidence that Lincoln planned the eventual repeal.

He didn't have to. Foremost was saving the union. No amendments with no United States.

[Non-Sequitur]

I'm not aware that people have claimed that Southern actions in 1860-61 were identical to the actions of the revolutionaries (the first ones, in 1776).

Oh puleeze. Start with reply 204 on this thread and take it from there. Check out the holy trinity of southron thought - Tommy DiLorenzo, Chuck Adams, and the Kennedy boys - and count how many times they refer to the actions of our Founders as 'secession' from the Britain. It's a ridiculous attempt to connect the southron cause with that of the Founding Fathers and it's laughable.

[#3Fan]

Point us to these 'reported accounts.' All the ones I've seen state that the dress is a lie. Perhaps Non would be proud of you for aiding in the Northron myth-making machine.

Revise away. lol All I did was post a link to a picture.

[GOPcapitalist]

The best Non-Seq has ever offered on that subject is a poorly sourced third hand modern day account of it by William C. Davis that purports to assemble information from historical documents. The problem is that he can never seem to post those documents in their own right. Of course Non-Seq, so famous for his tu quoquery and insistence upon comparative situations between north and south, adamantly refuses to acknowledge that the alleged article of the incident - a simple raincoat belonging to Mrs. Davis - had virtually no uniquely effeminate characteristics to it. His comparative response to the extremely effeminate shawl that Lincoln wore on an almost daily basis is that men of the time commonly wore shawls. Well, Lincoln sure did and maybe Walt Whitman...

[GOPcapitalist]

Abe Lincoln's (in)famous shawl. In color it is beige with brown designs and looks like it came straight off an old lady's couch, or in the winter, her head.

[Non-Sequitur]

Still fixated on women's clothing I see.

[GOPcapitalist]

Lysander was a certified nut job in his day, and the majority of Abolitionists readily testified to it.

Attacking the person and neglecting what he says is a common tactic of intellectually weak individuals. Nor is your attack even historically accurate. Spooner's legal theories were openly embraced and supported by the abolitionist faction of Gerrit Smith and the Liberty Party as their platform. Frederick Douglass modelled his own anti-slavery position on Spooner's book, the Unconstitutionality of Slavery, and publicly said so in his famous 4th of July speech. Of the anti-slavery forces in Congress, Spooner's book recieved public praise from William Seward and, in 1856, was debated at length on the floor of the Senate. Sen. Joseph Brown of Mississippi even admitted that it was logically indisputable so long as its premises were admitted (he still disputed the premises). Of the abolitionist factions who did oppose Spooner, namely Garrison and Wendell Phillips, both politely stated their respect for the intellectual merits of his work before taking issue only with its premises. Garrison even said that as a work of logic it was irrefutable.

In other words, don't attack the person when you cannot handle his ideas and if you are going to attack the person anyway, at least try to get your facts straight about him.

[GOPcapitalist]

Still fixated on women's clothing I see.

I only commented on the effeminate nature of Lincoln's shawl. Does that mean you admit that Lincoln wore women's clothing?

[#3Fan]

His comparative response to the extremely effeminate shawl that Lincoln wore on an almost daily basis is that men of the time commonly wore shawls.

Dracula movies have shawls. Are you sure it wasn't part of men's style of clothing then?

[Gianni]

secede

\Se"cede"\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Seceded; p. pr. & vb. n. Seceding.] [L. secedere, secessum; pref se- aside + cedere to go, move. See Cede.] To withdraw from fellowship, communion, or association; to separate one's self by a solemn act; to draw off; to retire; especially, to withdraw from a political or religious body.

What the revolutionaries did July 4, 1776 was secession. That you do not like it is immaterial.

[Gianni]

Revise away. lol All I did was post a link to a picture.

Revise away indeed. Maybe it's time to post some links for you as well:

Link
Link

[#3Fan]

That link to Davis' dress really got you guys wound up. Tinfoil hats galore now. ROFL

[Gianni]

Tinfoil hats galore now.

Revise away, LOL

[nolu chan]

Gianni, they were intending to reinforce and have an augmented garrison of UNARMED troops. </sarcasm >

The OFFICIAL ORDERS state to "REINFORCE" to "HOLD" and reference the "AUGMENTED GARRISON."

OFFICIAL RECORDS

FORT SUMTER

SOURCE: OFFICIAL RECORDS, OPERATIONS IN CHARLESTON HARBOR, S.C. , Series 1, Volume 1, Page 236.

April 4, 1861
To: Lieut. Col. H.L. Scott, Aide de Camp

This will be handed to you by Captain G.V. Fox, an ex-officer of the Navy. He is charged by authority here, with the command of an expedition (under cover of certain ships of war) whose object is, to reinforce Fort Sumter.

To embark with Captain Fox, you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about 200, to be immediately organized at fort Columbus, with competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence, with other necessaries needed for the augmented garrison at Fort Sumter.

Signed: Winfield Scott

---