Our Glorious Gospel

Answers For Today ^ | Chuck Smith

[Wrigley]

Sure, I can share.

I don't trust your motives.

United Reformed.

Now, go try and play gotcha.

[xzins]

I will know who stands to lead the people in any church I pastor. Only trinitarians would ever be put before the people in a leader role. And I'm picky about them.

However, I don't check cards on attenders. If some mormons were to come in for the worship service I would certainly not remove them. (In fact, I would [and have] invite[d] them to hear the gospel.) The doors are closed only to those who have the intention of disrupting or injuring the people.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Proof text.

[CCWoody]

***Go back through the thread Vernon, my comments to you were in the context of worshipping with people of "other faiths" and your attempt to use the BoD to support your stance.***

Yes, he is clearly trying to spin it. The only problem is that every Calvinist and even xzins believed him to be speaking of worshipping with "other faiths."

Woody.

[Vernon]

The core issue has been, and still is, the desire of some here to turn the house of God into a place where those who are in false religion can worship with the saints.

Amazing! Incredible!

[xzins]

I don't know them.

I don't play gotcha. Do they have a college or seminary?

[snerkel]

Am I incorrect in my statement that the mission field is the world (outside of the fellowship of the church)?

As for the verse you presented, 1 Corinthians 14:21-25, Paul is dealing with the gifts of prophesy, tongues and orderly worship. You failed to note that Paul is speaking of a congregation of Believers, not Believers and non-Believers, and how disorderly worship would cause a non-Believer to think the congregation of Believers are demented.

[Ex-Wretch]

Hi Mom (ya know I love ya). At the risk of offending you and the Swarm - I'm putting forth the following thoughts. Not as bait, but because after 3 years of reading these threads on Calvinism, this is what I have shrunk it all down to. You may say it is not a correct understanding. Fine. Nevertheless, I find little comfort and no hope as it has been presented over the last 3 years.

Calvinism for Dummies (Cliffs Notes version)

God is sovereign.
He foreknew and predestined it all.
His Plan. His Will. His creation. The Fall. His Salvation.
The Messiah. The Elect. The Damned. The End. Eternity.

Man’s destiny is not of his own choosing.
Man’s destiny is irresistible – heaven or hell.
God’s Sovereign Plan and His Sovereign Will dictates and predestines man’s end.
Thus, to sin is in God’s Sovereign Plan and Will for man.

How then, is sin an act of disobedience? It is God’s Will and Plan.
Man is incapable of stopping his sinning even after being saved.
Thy Will be done. On earth as it is in heaven.

This is a dreadful doctrine. No Hope.
It sounds like a variation of reincarnation.
Nothing can be done to alter your beginning, middle or end.
Hard. Cold. Unmovable. Preprogrammed. That’s just the way it is.

I just can’t imagine putting God in a box like that. Where am I wrong?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Thanks, Marlowe. I consider your weak response an affirmation I answered correctly, even under the scrutiny of your precise judicial glare.

Neener, right back at ya.

[RnMomof7]

You have no idea of the gospel I preach.

But you are wrong , you have put it on display here for al to see.

It is a "gospel" that ignores the word of God for the approval of men

It is a gospel that lacks discernment in its willingness to have prayer and fellowship with different gods on the high places

it is a gospel preached without reference to the word of God..just nice sounding platitudes

It for everyone to see.

I will not tell you in blunt terms what I think, but if the "children of the Reformation" are represented by the kind of diatribe that has been going on here, I agree with our Calvinist Choir leader, it is aberrant at best.

The children of the reformation will gladly tell you what they think of a gospel that is preached that ignores the word of God.

We do not need your approval..all we need do is to preach the gospel

We are being Jesus to a church bereft of the teachings of God

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There was no altar call after this.

[Vernon]

Sorry, but that is pure baloney. I gave you the citation, and if you don't like it, that is your problem. I do not check membership cards at the door, and if anyone wants to come to a worship service, I certainly will not prevent them. I cannot imagine anyone telling someone they can't come to church! I can well assure you that I know of no Methodist who would not participate in an ecumenical community service. Please note: "Participate!" Now, make something out of that I did not say.

[P-Marlowe]

Vern, every Sunday our pastor admonishes the congregation to next time "bring your unsaved friends".

Seems these guys would admonish their congregation to "tell your unsaved friends, that they're not welcome next sunday." As if there aren't unsaved pew warmers and heretics there already.

Yeah, when these guys find the perfect church where everyone is saved and everyone is completely in tune with the spirit of God and everyone worships in one accord without any dissention or spirit of error, then I certainly hope they don't try to join it. They'll ruin it for sure.

[P-Marlowe]

I take it then that you won't be ridiculing WM or any other Mormon freepers anymore when they give their frighteningly similar BURNING BUSOM testimonies, eh?

[xzins]

To be honest, the word "faith group" and "religion" is used differently by different organizations.

The US Army chaplaincy uses "faith group" as synonymous with denomination. A religion is a separate distinct religious persuasion....As in the major world religions.

For organizational purposes the break the chaplaincy into Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim. They consider Christianity's 2 major threads to be Catholic/Protestant. I always understood their organizational need to do so, but they called "protestant" anything that wasn't Catholic.

Then there are the "separate faith groups" within Christianity, as they called it: mormon, jw, missouri synod lutheran, orthodox, anglican (sometimes)

These are groups that did not desire to join with the "protestants" or were groups that the protestants did not want to join them.

It was all rather confusing.

But faith group = denomination.

I consider mormon a different religion like islam, but others may use these words differently.

[Vernon]

We care all to be fruit inspectors.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."

Perhaps we should check our own fruit trees!

[CCWoody]

***I will know who stands to lead the people in any church I pastor. Only trinitarians would ever be put before the people in a leader role. And I'm picky about them. ***

A Calvinist whom I will not name (he can do it if he wants) recently had a Universalist in the pulpit of his non Calvinist church. Vern can whine all he wants about "abberant Calvinists" but we are a wee bit concerned when we hear about worshipping with "other faiths." Some of you may wish to soil yourselves in this way, but we are far too jealous of the sanctity of our worship.

***However, I don't check cards on attenders. If some mormons were to come in for the worship service I would certainly not remove them. (In fact, I would [and have] invite[d] them to hear the gospel.) The doors are closed only to those who have the intention of disrupting or injuring the people.***

Nobody said we did. The issue has always been the conscious worship WITH "other faiths." We feed the homeless donuts every Sunday, as many as come and as many as they want. They have all the coffee they want too. They are invited to even come inside. Sometimes we sit with them outside. I have no problem with any of this.

It is amazing that, like the so-called disciples who followed Jesus only to get their bellies full, most of them never come inside. One woman did once, seeking help. After we helped her, she was found with no food, but a ton of cigarettes. The only homeless guy who consistently follows us where ever we go seems to always have some new clothes and stuff to help him.

But, I will throw the "mother of all fits" if the pulpit ever tried to do what Vern advocated in worshipping WITH other faiths.

Woody.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I care not one bit what "you like to hear."

[drstevej]

A proof text, Vern?

[Vernon]

Amen

[xzins]

My point is that the Apostle Paul had the expectation that unbelievers WOULD be a part of the service and COULD be saved there.

I know you see that.

As to the world outside the doors of the church being the mission field, you are asking me if those outside the church are the unsaved. Yes, they are the unsaved.

My opinion of the best method to reach that world of unsaved people largely revolves around the church that Christ established.

It was the church that used various methods in the book of Acts and continues to. We see street preaching, we see appointing of missionaries by the church, we see personal witnessing, we see opportunity traveling, we see using the church program to attract outsiders, etc.

Anything that is effective is fine with me so long as the gospel is spread. I'm an advocate of the seeker-friendly church as being especially effective in our day.