Posted on 03/09/2016 7:30:40 PM PST by TigerClaws
Then what you want is not a trade issue or an economic issue. What you want is an international boycott of China, Russia, Iran... for national defense.
If you can get that, I’ll sign on. But if you can’t then tanking our economy is not good for our national defense. Don’t think trade barriers are the way to improve our economy.
500 BILLION trade deficit IS tanking our economy.
As far as trade deficit and tanking our economy, I think you’re falling for a boogeyman; I don’t think you’ve thought through it. No offense intended, seriously.
Let’s say you make seat cushions from textiles, material. You go to your material supplier and buy $100 worth of cloth.
Do you think: I now have a $100 trade deficit with this man?
No. You exchanged equal value.
Now, imagine, your supplier offered the same amount of material for one-fourth the cost.
Would you think: “Now I can make four times the seat cushions and make more profit”; or “I shouldn’t do that, my deficit with him would quadruple” ?
What is your argument here?
What part of a billion people don't you get?
The sheer mass multiplies each percentage point of any measurement to unreal production capabilities. Multiplied by virtual slave labor, and they're a monster. Wake up.
They have a lot of people, yes. Some countries have more people than us, some have less.
But what part of their GDP per capita is 15% of the U.S don’t you get?
Which people are the better off and more successful? Which economy would you rather be part of?
Say a huge monster sells you good stuff cheap.
What economic problem do you have with the monster?
I like getting good stuff cheap. It helps me and my family and my business.
Trump also wants to raise taxes on what we buy from Japan. Make them more expensive.
Japan has 130,00,00 million people. Not a billion. Less people than we do.
Are they a monster too?
Sorry,typo: Japan has 130 million people.
Yes. I do have a deficit with that man. He has 100 of my dollars and I have some cloth. That man now buys a used revolver and some bullets and is planning to kill me some day if I don’t do his bidding.
Following the China America Trade Deficit numbers....lets say this scenario plays out for 5 days. Now that man has 500 of my dollars and I have lots of cloth. So on the sixth day I make a nice jacket and sell it to him for 50 dollars.
ON the seventh day, I rest and think, wow that guy, this week has got 500 dollars of mine and I got 50 dollars of his. That guy is coming out really good in our trade relationship. Sure I may have lots of extra cloth to make more cool jackets but other people in Bangladesh are making the jackets for less.....
Now you say I find that I can get the cloth for 75 percent less and you want me to continue this? No. It doesn’t matter how cheap the cloth is if I am not going to get orders for 500 dollars worth jackets. And China is not going to play fair. I will just end up selling them 4 jackets for 50 bucks....because it is not trade...it is artificially controlled commerce.
Not to mention but certainly not to forget I am trading with the enemy, an enemy who plans on killing me or controlling me someday ASAP. SOOOO....I’d say reality trumps texts books again. No pun intended. (well maybe) oh hell who knows, Trump makes his crap in China. lol.
2017 will be an eye opening experience
I’m asking you to look at the basic economics of market transactions. And look at what it is that you’re calling the evil of a deficit.
You’re concluding that getting a really good price for your material is hurting you. Everyone you buy from is hurting you. If you go to the supermarket and buy food, unless the grocer buys your product, he’s hurting you. You’ve gotten an equal value in food in a willing transaction, but he’s a bad guy.
And everyone you sell your product to is hurt by you in return. The more they buy from you the more they hurt themselves; you’re the bad guy for selling them a product they want.
This is a very strange view of free enterprise.
You are making free choices in the market, along with the persons you buy and sell from. Exchanging value willingly for their self-benefit.
Trade restrictions are part, not all, of global commercial nation state competition. Other nations use it, and so should we. To cut it completely out of the model is foolish. Your examples are ridiculous for their extremity.
My examples demonstrate a very basic point.
>>To cut it completely out of the model is foolish.
If you mean my example: Trump’s policy is the equivalent of taxing your supplier and raising your costs - and the price you charge to those buying your product. And the government gets more money to re-distribute and pay for more bureaucracy.
>>>Other nations use it, and so should we.
Certain restrictions are necessary, very few; and in purely economic terms, they hurt the country that raises trade barriers.
I'm talking reality, not economic theory. So is Trump. Economic theory us what had gotten us into the mess we're in today. And thanks for finally admitting that restrictions are necessary.
Restrictions involving defense secrets for example.
It’s not just theory that, In reality, raising tariffs are like auto bailouts (which Trump liked): tax the many to give to the few. And more government control of the economy.
The reality is that increasing prices, lowering the value of wages, increasing the cost of business, reducing exports.. are not prescriptions to improve the economy.
Nope. You live in proxy world. This is like that, that and that, so let's talk about those.
No.
The issue is trade wars with other countries like China, Japan, whomever. Trade restrictions are vital against nationstates who undermine all of the regulatory restrictions we have here. It's not only common sense, it's blatantly obvious. Your arguments are the same as anti-gunners - if we disarm, then the bad guys will disarm, too. No they won't. Hitting countries with trade restrictions for using slave labor to undercut us is appropriate. We do not live in an ideal economic world where everything is equal. Everything is not equal, and not on the same playing field. denying this has economically crushed the country, and here you are arguing it's good economics to not stop it or even fight back. Bull.
I think it’s a dreamworld to believe hurting your economy is the way to level the playing field.
And that government knows best how to run the economy and keep us from making the wrong choices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DhagKyvDck
The dream world is the fantasies you impose on anyone who disagrees with you. No one is arguing the economy be hurt. To impose that upon your argument opponent is to resort to insult and slander, and the identifying mark of a failed position you’re taking. Likewise to claim those who disagree believe government knows best. These are deliberately inflammatory accusations, and beneath the dignity of one with a sound position. Yet you repeatedly resort to such indignities. I think, therefore, you know the weakness of your position, which is all the greater shame.
A government that doesn’t make use of sanctions in trade wars is playing to lose, and not protecting its people. It’s that simple. And to presume that is the only weapon available or requires embracing fascism, is childish and ignorant.
>>No one is arguing the economy be hurt.
I’m arguing that the proposals you’re supporting will hurt the economy, in the ways that I stated.
>>>To impose that upon your argument opponent
I’m not imposing my argument, any more than you are imposing your argument.
We’re in a debate arguing our positions.
>>>These are deliberately inflammatory accusations..
Accusations like “You live in proxy world” or your argument is “like the anti-gunners..”
I’m not inflamed by your passion in defense of your position. If we’re not passionate about our position, why would we bother defending it?
I’m done. I can’t deal with your fantasy world of perfect economic trade models. You’re so in love with your books and theories that you can’t recognize when people are kicking over your library table and robbing you.
No problem.
I wish you well and thank your for the discussion.
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