Posted on 02/09/2014 9:26:46 AM PST by Errant
>> “Nice verse...But these verses contradict the verse you posted.” <<
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No, they do not!
You need to read and UNDERSTAND the entire chapter 2 of James. He said that “Ye see HOW that by works a man is justified. Are you ignoring the meaning of the whole chapter?
And why do you discount Paul’s use of the word “believeth” in Romans 4? Believing on Yeshua requires belief in every word he spoke, not those that are sweet to your itching ears. The Law of Moses was never intended to justify without faith in the perfect acceptable sacrifice.
Word games is all you seem to know.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Well wait a minute...That's what I mentioned...
You claim that the lost sheep of the house of Israel is Israel while the house of Judah is in covenant...That is, they are religious and following the O.T. covenant(s)...
That was my question...Why is Jesus preaching for three and a half years to those 'in covenant' when his purpose for coming was to preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel??? He then never made it to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, who you claimed weren't any where near Palestine...
So help out my scriptural illiteracy and explain this to me...
The carnal need to feel they earned it or did something to deserve it seems strong as well.
You mock my savior.
It was his words that you mockingly posted in derision.
Show us how to mock Matthew 7, OK?
You haven’t even gotten up to “carnal” yet!
You reject his words openly.
Most of those commandments were not directed at the priests...Surely you have a source for that rule that now apparently precludes you from following those 613 laws...
You didn't post the entire chapter...You posted one verse that says you are justified by works...
So go ahead and explain what the entire chapter of James means so I will understand where you are coming from...
Hypocrits, brood of vipers. That’s what Jesus calls those who preach the law but don’t follow it themselves. When you have proven you follow them all perfectly you will have the right to criticize others. Until then it’s just hypocritical fraud.
I Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
I Cor. 6:1-5 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?" ()
>> “You claim that the lost sheep of the house of Israel is Israel while the house of Judah is in covenant.” <<
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Is there any way to make sense of that statement that I didn’t even make?
The “House of Israel” is a specific group well defined in scripture, as is “The House of Judah.” They are two completely separate groups. When Yeshua uses the term “The Lost Sheep of The House of Israel,” he is invoking a third group, that is the group defined in the word as his “remnant” and his “bride.”
Your use of “Israel” is quite unspecific, and broad, and appears to be a large part of your not insignificant confusion.
Yeshua preached to accuse the Pharisees, and define their error perfectly for his future bride, and that preaching had to be done in the same place he had come to be sacrificed for the sins of his bride.
He sent his apostles to his bride with that clear exposure of the Pharisee’s error and to future generations through their epistles that you so mockingly twist to Satan’s glee.
You seek to sow confusion with conniving misdirecting questions that lead to the confusion of those of less than full understanding.
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You are much like the carnal Corinthians!
That is exactly what I said. But then, you are now declaring you keep the law... Which begs it's own questions.
It is the natural outworking of Christ in us to do what is right. It's not something that we have to do to prove that we love God, thinking that we're pleasing Him with our works.
Exactly right - but what you say necessarily must be quantified. HOW is it quantified? To wit: A fine Christian woman lay naked before me not but a few months ago, telling me the Spirit moved her to do so - She literally wanted to make love to me 'in the Spirit' in an adulterous relationship. LOLWHUT? Now, even in the squishy system of right and wrong that most Christians 'adhere to', That's gotta be fairly off the mark, no? How do you KNOW it's wrong?
The Law hangs on two commandments of love. When we walk in those, we keep the Law in our hearts, without having to observe the external rules and regulations required by the Law which never saved or justified anyone.
There you go with 'justification' again... And the big two commandments are from the Torah. And HOW do you know you are walking in those?
Besides, there is no way to keep the Law as the sacrificial system is no longer and there is no Temple nor priesthood that can offer the appropriate sacrifices in the prescribed manner.
You keep saying that, but it simply isn't so - For instance, do you think that Jews who are too far away from Jerusalem and too poor to go DON'T keep the Holy Days? Of COURSE they do! They build a sukkot wherever they are. The have the butcher prepare kosher lamb wherever they are. And it has ALWAYS been so.
So those who advocate keeping the Law are only advocating keeping the Law in name only. There is way too much of it that cannot be kept correctly to begin with and to demand that we keep the rest leaves those making the demands hypocrites.
Simply not the truth. That which cannot be done is not held against you.
In the Beatitudes, Jesus revealed the intent of the Law. If we walk in those, we do fill the Law. If we keep only the externals, with a laundry list of do's and don't's, we are not really keeping the Law and that isn't pleasing to God because the Law does not and cannot dictate behavior in each and every circumstance in our lives.
PARTLY true - and very much to the point - but what you are missing is that those things are things against which there is no law. Focusing on the letter, as the pharisees, has never been right. But keeping the Beatitudes and breaking the law is not right either.
Laws are written for criminals, so if your heart is right, law has no effect on you, because you naturally keep the law. Drug laws mean nothing to you if you don't do drugs. Monetary laws have no effect on you if you conduct yourself properly wrt money. Fraud laws have no impact if you don't commit fraud. Likewise with YHWH's Torah, I think. If you are doing it right, there is a desire to keep Torah, and as John says, you know you love YHWH by keeping Torah - How well you are walking in the commandments is the bellweather.
If we walk according to the intent of the Law, which someone who is walking in the Spirit does, the Law is then fulfilled in the Spirit without becoming a bunch of legalists who think that what we do actually pleases God.
That isn't exactly so - you are conflating legalism with keeping Torah.
That which cannot be done is not held against you.
Interesting...was listening to a Pastor explaining what the Islam teaches about who the coming of thier Mahadi/12th Emamam is..... Of course that description is identical to the Biblical Anti-Christ.
At any rate,... one of the things Islam teaches is the Mahadi will “discover”...(like Rood)...another hidden ‘Torah’ and use it to show Jews and Christians they were wrong.
So you can tell that false teachers like Rood ,and others as him, are softening up the stage for the Anti-Christ...
Any false teaching which tells of “new” discoveries....”hidden” messages not before revealed should always be a a red light to a Christian.
Like the long hidden original copy of Matthew written in Hebrew claimed by the Hebrew roots (Rood) people. We have even been told the New Testament we have in the original Greek is just a corrupted copy. Yeah right. RED FLAG for sure.
The easy way out here is to look at two things: The Holy Days and the Prophets, neither of which are fully fulfilled. Unlike the Roman holidays Christians prefer, YHWH's Holy Days have extraordinary purpose. They are prophetic 'rehearsals' (which is a fuzzy meaning for moedim in Hebrew).
Yeshua fulfilled the Spring Feasts with such an incredible precision - FAR more precision than most Christians ever begin to understand. It is truly a beautiful thing. But the Fall Feasts await fulfillment - They are not completed. Likewise the Prophets - Yeshua fulfilled MUCH, but the prophets extend even beyond the Millenial Kingdom, so they too cannot be complete.
As to the article:
What would be the least of the commandments? This is not the Sabbath or the 10 but all 613. The smallest “jot or tittle” of “the law and the prophets” will not pass away. The jot or tittle is the smallest stroke of the pen in the Hebrew alphabet. This would include all the ceremonial laws as well! If one insists on keeping the 10 then this means we would have to keep all the Torah laws that Israel kept, there would be no change from the new covenant. If the law is still in effect then so are the penalties for breaking the law. If one separates the penalties then the commands have no authority or justice on an individual. But Jesus also mentioned the prophets, that all they have prophesied will be accomplished.
For all that the author is incredulous, this is precisely right. The part I have in bold is what hangs him up. See if you can figure out why.
AKA Catholics and Roodites.
Roods teachings indeed are depraved
LOL! Nice redirect, but that was not the question.
you cannot promote Rood and his false teachings about the Torah and attempt to use the Gospel of Jesus Christ as a buffer to these false teachings [...]
First of all, I am not promoting Rood. I do agree with a lot that he has to say, but I have thought quite the same way for the last 20 years, long before Rood had any following. I think he is dead on wrt the calendar, at least from what I have heard. I think because of his work on the timing of Yeshua's ministry, he has added priceless data to the data pool. I think the Jonah Code is exactly right too. And most of all, I am right exactly with him in the idea of using the Hebrew definition of terms - Lose the Greek and the Roman overlays, understand the Hebrew perspective the Book was written in, and it will positively bloom.
[...]without opposing what Jesus clearly taught us to avoid.
I reject that outright. He taught no such thing. He taught to do and to teach the Torah. If He did any other thing, He would have been a false prophet, and His sacrifice would have been in vain.
We are not ministers of the law..... Look at what we are told to be ministers of.......
“who also made us sufficient as ‘ministers of the new covenant’,... not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?” (2 Cor 3:6-8)
Religion is always threatened by Jesus’ teaching on grace, it challenges our work to be righteous..... Any additions destroy God’s grace toward us, and adding the law that was made obsolete certainly is that which destroys grace.
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