Hawaii Elections Clerk Tim Adams Says There is No Obama Birth Certificate from Hawaii

BBCW ^ | 3 March 2012 | Bungalow Bill

[Harlan1196]

But we know the CCP did not have original documents. We know they had a pdf copy that they downloaded from a web site. That’s what the report said.

They said the pdf image showed signs of being a computer generated forgery.

Do you agree that the pdg image was a forgery?

[rolling_stone]

Take a deep breath, and try and post something of value instead of your deception, straw man baloney, off point, diversionary liberal garbage. You are repeating over and over again nonsense. Do you think you are making a point, you are not! I suggest you either get some real points to discuss or go to another site where you can all drink the same kool aid....

You sure have a lot of time to post here for someone supposedly doing contract work, what do you get paid by the word you post? What did you do in the Navy?
ZOT

[philman_36]

Here you go with your game of trying to frame the discussion again...
I agree with you that you need original documents to detect forgery or fraud.
No, we don't agree. You're trying to conflate the two.
Only after viewing each individual document for signs of forgery can that be determined. Each document or file has to be viewed individually and separately. Examination of the information that might be on each item is something different.

I agree with you that it hasn’t happened yet.
What hasn't happened yet? What is "it"?

[philman_36]

If they are correct then you don’t need original documents to detect fraud, now do you?
Each item needs to be checked separately! You can't infer one thing from the examination of the other.

[Harlan1196]

Just let the man answer the question. He was the one who brought up the issue of original documents.

Very simple question - can a professional document examiner detect fraud without actually touching the original document?

That seems like a relevant question regarding the CCP investigation.

[philman_36]

Do you agree that the pdg image was a forgery?
What is a pdg image?

[Harlan1196]

An electronic copy of unknown provenance and no verifiable chain of custody is useless legally unless you have a valid digital signature. That’s the problem with electronic copies - ANYONE can alter them.

Can you show the provenance and chain of custody for the pdf they examined? Where was it stored? Who had access to it? What software programs were used to open it? How many copies did the CCP make?

There is a reason courts want to see real paper with seals and signatures. And so do document examiners.

[Harlan1196]

Do you agree that the pdf image was a forgery?

Thanks for correcting my typo.

[philman_36]

He was the one who brought up the issue of original documents.

That's because you tried your surreptitious BS again!

Can you show me any instance where any certified examiner has declared the BC fraudulent?

He's just digging himself another hole RS.

[philman_36]

Do you agree that the pdf image was a forgery?
Nobody has determined that it is a forgery. The investigators say the evidence contained in the computer-generated PDF file released by the White House as well as important deficiencies in the Hawaii process of certifying the long-form birth certificate establish probable cause that a forgery has been committed.

Why are you trying to trap me into saying something that was never asserted?

[rolling_stone]

can a professional document examiner detect fraud without actually touching the original document?

I already answered that for you see Dan Ranther TNG documents..

[Harlan1196]

So can you answer a simple question?

Can you detect document forgery without looking at an original document?

That’s all I’m asking.

[philman_36]

Very simple question - can a professional document examiner detect fraud without actually touching the original document?
Is the professional document examiner being asked to examine the original document or a completely different document?

[philman_36]

That’s all I’m asking.
Well I can't answer your question without additional information. So you
answer #293 and I'll see what I can do about answering your question.

[Harlan1196]

We are specifically talking about electronic copies. Copies that ANYONE can alter without detection.

You can’t alter paper copies without detection.

Ironically, CBS hired experts to authenticate the documents and they refused, saying they could not authenticate copies - they needed originals.

[rolling_stone]

An electronic copy of unknown provenance and no verifiable chain of custody is useless legally unless you have a valid digital signature. That’s the problem with electronic copies - ANYONE can alter them.

DUH so why present an electronic copy? What about watermarks, digital and paper?

[philman_36]

We are specifically talking about electronic copies. Copies that ANYONE can alter without detection.
Well then that presents a problem. The electronic file in question was presented as "the real deal", it came from the WH web site "as is" and it appears from the evidence presented to have been altered.

And if we're talking specifically about electronic copies then..
Why are you asking if a professional document examiner can detect fraud without actually touching the original document as the original document isn't what is in question and it has never presented for inspection?

[philman_36]

Ironically, CBS hired experts to authenticate the documents and they refused, saying they could not authenticate copies - they needed originals.

Think about your own statement for a minute and then reflect on the question that got you started on your latest diatribe...

Can you show me any instance where the original files have been opened to the public to allow a certified examiner to examine them?

[Ray76]

An electronic copy of unknown provenance and no verifiable chain of custody is useless legally unless you have a valid digital signature. That’s the problem with electronic copies - ANYONE can alter them.

Can you show the provenance and chain of custody for the pdf they examined? Where was it stored? Who had access to it? What software programs were used to open it? How many copies did the CCP make?

There is a reason courts want to see real paper with seals and signatures.

Exactly.

Why do you assert the legitimacy or defend the veracity of the PDF? Repeatedly here, here, and here, etc.

Why is the public attention directed by Obama to this PDF if it is of no value?

Why do you think he refused to show up in court in Georgia with this document?

Do you begin to see the light?

[philman_36]

...it has was never presented...
...it has never been presented...

Take your pick. Thinking faster than typing.