Posted on 11/14/2011 11:34:43 PM PST by Kevmo
There isn’t any proof there is a actual customer.... if there is one, no doubt it is one that isn’t sophisticated enough to detect the fraud and able to evaluate this thing without being led around by the nose by Rossi..
Thanks! AWESOME! :)
Maybe WW and Kevmo would like to start some perpetual motion generator threads?
Maybe because Krivit is a confidence man? -— you don’t think con men don’t create their own skeptics to convince?
It really helps in selling the con.
The sample he sent was found to be the wrong isotope of copper for a nuclear by product. It is common copper that comes from a copper mine and is smelted.
The result that I got not off a Rossi site said it was the wrong Isotope.
I don’t trust the Rossi News Service, sorry.
So, apparently, the DATA from the TWO samples shows that the E-Cat converts Ni to Cu and perhaps Fe.No, the data shows that one sample is pure "ordinary" (as found in nature), Nickel, and the other sample is "ordinary" (as found in nature) Nickel and "ordinary" (as found in nature) "Copper" and "ordinary" (as found in nature) Iron. There is nothing in the analysis that gives the slightest clue regarding the relationship between the two samples. That's based entirely on Rossi's unsubstantiated claims.
If you believe Rossi's unsubstantiated claim that his E-Cat transmuted on into the other, then you could conclude that the change was due to some unknown, unexplainable nuclear process.
If you don't believe Rossi, then all you need is a few vials of "ordinary" (as found in nature) metal powders and a kitchen scale to produce the second sample.
Since you seem to be uneducated on this subject, here's a brief explanation of why such a reaction would be unexplainable:
The original article states that Rossi used 62Ni and 64Ni in the reactions. The trouble is, 62Ni only makes up 3.6% of natural Nickel, and 64Ni is less than 1%. So, even if those isotopes were completely turned into Copper and Iron, there isn't enough of those isotopes to produce anything like either 10% Copper or 11% Iron, let alone both.
And even if they could, then there would be 0% of those isotopes in the "ash" sample, which is not the case, according to the article I referenced.
There is a paper from Rossis Journal blog (referenced above) that claims that Rossi's E-Cat is converting 58Ni into Copper and Iron. This, at least, is plausible, since there is enough 58Ni (68%) to produce the resulting Copper and Iron. But even here, there is the problem of ratios. If you convert 20% of the 58Ni into something else, it will no longer be 58Ni, and the isotope ratios will be way out of whack, which the analysis shows is not true.
And, even if you get past all of that, you still have to come up with some magic transformations that allow the original Nickel isotopes to convert into different isotopes of Copper and Iron so that they just happen to keep the exact ratios as in nature. You would need something like "x% of 58Ni turns into 63Cu, while y% turns into 65Cu and z% turns into each of the four stable (and none of the unstable) isotopes of Iron, in exactly the right ratios to make it appear that nothing at all has happened to the sample.
This is nothing less than preposterous. The fact that Miley (referenced above) does show 39 different isotope ratio changes makes Rossi's claims even more ridiculous. If Rossi could show any non-natural isotope ratios, it would at least suggest some sort of nuclear process. But that would be expensive and difficult, so Rossi just ignored it, told the world that he had an analysis done (without releasing the actual report, and without proving that his sample was genuine). As usual with Rossi, he isn't allowing enough information to come out to clearly answer the questions.
Since Rossi is trying to use this "secret" analysis to bolster his claims, perhaps he should release it. The most reasonable theory is he won't release it because it will show that he's a fraud. It can't be that he's trying to protect his intellectual property, since he is now (supposedly) selling E-Cats to anyone who wants one. If he ever actually delivers one, the owner will certainly do the experiment themselves anyway.
Were Bernie Maddof's 'clients' acting like this? That is until they found out their moolah was gone.
Does anyone remember the 'Dale' car that was supposed to get 70MPG? She? (the owner) actually named her company, "Twentieth Century Motors" from Atlas Shrugged.
There's even a WIKI entry which, for some reason, leaves out the part that the woman that owned the company was a guy in drag.
The moral, people always find a way to scam based on world problems. The Dale's scam was when the fuel crisis hit, now, were supposedly running out of oil and another scammer steps forth to be heard.
Yep, that’s pretty much it.
I do "understand this stuff". I was making and measuring radioisotopes (probably) before you were out of diapers.
"63Cu and 65Cu are both naturally-occurring isotopes of Copper. Their presence doesn't prove, or even suggest, that there was any type of nuclear process involved. This is entirely consistent with Rossi mixing some Nickel powder with some Copper powder and some Iron powder, using nothing more sophisticated than a kitchen scale."
Yes, they "are" naturally occurring. But if they appear in a sample that was originally pure nickel, they "do" provide evidence of a nuclear process. As do the ELEMENTAL ANALYSES done by Miley.
Kullander thinks they provide such proof:
"Two of the copper isotopes detected were Cu63 and Cu65. Kullander has stated this is proof of nuclear reactions taking place in the reactor.
"Your quote (it would have been appropriate to include a link) doesn't mention anything about the isotope ratio of the elements. The article I posted (to which I did include a link) stated that the isotope ratio of both the Nickel and Copper were identical to those found in nature."
Sorry, but I was in a rush this AM to get to work. The reply (and link) you provided merely made the statement that statement that the ratio was "identical to that found in nature". No data, no composition numbers, nothing other than the statement. And made by someone other than those that did the work.
URL:
http://pesn.com/2011/04/07/9501805_Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Validated_by_Swedish_Skeptics_Society/
Neither your information or my information is sufficient to make an informed judgment. What needs to be found (if available) is the actual report that Essen/Kullander generated. Or at least something that provides more detail.
"Come back when you understand the difference between an element and an isotope, and when you can explain how Rossi can claim to be "enhancing" the Nickel isotope ratios, and claim to be "transmuting" Nickel into Copper, without making any changes to the natural isotope ratio.
I've understood the difference between element and isotope since grade school. And I have no idea how Rossi might be enriching the nickel, or even that he "is" enriching it. I think some of what Rossi says is deliberate misdirection. You think due to a scam.....I think to throw any competitors off on wild-goose chases.
I need to start compiling a list when I notice yet another of Rossi's (or his associates) use a legitimate business's name that is in the energy field. He's done it a couple of times. From now on I'm going to start counting.
I'd sure like him working with H2 in the apartment above mine, that seems safe. And fusion, no problem, didn't you see how safe it was in, Back to the Future?
I don't know if I've read the latest version of how Rossi's scam ECAT works but I think we're on major rev 10 minor rev 3. But, if this thing is Fussion, I would love to hear the bureaucrats at the NRC reviewing his app.
Since Rossi has trouble keeping track of the B.S. he keeps spewing I'd love to be there for the hearing. Did I say it was Nuclear I meant chemical, it's as safe as say having cyanide in your fridge, no wait, I meant it's as safe as mixing ammonia and Comet cleanser, no wait, have you met my wife, Morgan Fairchild?
Let me explain this in simple words, and maybe you will get it. The flowmeter isn't shown in the formal "list of equipment"....but it is referred to multiple times in different places in descriptions of the demo. Therefore, the flowmeter was there, and used, despite the fact that it isn't "listed in the report's canonical list of measuring devices". Exactly why it got left out of the list, I neither know nor care. Other evidence proves its presence and use.
One of the participants makes the statement that when they left for the night, they focussed a video camera on the flowmeter to automatically take data in their absence. I thought that was a cute "trick" to turn a totalizing flowmeter into a real-time measuring device.
“Yes, they “are” naturally occurring. But if they appear in a sample that was originally pure nickel, they “do” provide evidence of a nuclear process. As do the ELEMENTAL ANALYSES done by Miley.”
LMAO.....Really?
Yes, they "are" naturally occurring. But if they appear in a sample that was originally pure nickel, they "do" provide evidence of a nuclear process. As do the ELEMENTAL ANALYSES done by Miley.The analysis could not support any conclusion about where the samples came from. It was reported that Rossi supplied them (maybe in a brown paper bag, for all we know).
If Rossi put pure Nickel into the E-Cat, ran it for two months, and the sample came out with Copper and Iron, then it's evidence of fusion.
However, there is no evidence of this happening (other than Rossi's unsubstantiated claim). It is just as plausible that Rossi simply added some Copper and Iron to the Nickel. There is no way for any analysis to exclude that, although the claim that the sample contained only natural ratios of Ni and Cu does support the possibility that the sample was simply a mixture of elements from a chemistry set.
Now, if the sample did contain non-natural ratios of any of the elements (as it must if fusion is actually occurring), then there would be evidence of fusion going on. It would be much more difficult and expensive for Rossi to fake that.
Notice that no one is accusing Miley of faking his results. In part, that's because Miley's analysis does show changes in the isotope ratios, which I understand has been the hallmark of every seemingly successful LENR test.
Neither your information or my information is sufficient to make an informed judgment. What needs to be found (if available) is the actual report that Essen/Kullander generated. Or at least something that provides more detail.The article I referenced (LINK) is NyTeknik, which I believe is an acceptable source for Rossi fans, and it directly quotes Sven Kullander, who I believe is also an acceptable source for Rossi fans.
As usual with Rossi, he won't release the actual data, so this is all we have to work with.
I think some of what Rossi says is deliberate misdirection.So we agree that Rossi is lying about the E-Cat. Explain to me again how we should be believing everything he says (such as the "ash" sample he supplied really was transmuted in his E-Cat), while at the same time accepting that he is lying about it?
By the way, does it cause you the slightest concern that Rossi's new European partner is also selling a perpetual motion machine? I think that would shake my confidence a bit.
http://pesn.com/2011/04/07/9501805_Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Validated_by_Swedish_Skeptics_Society/Do you have any idea how many scams have been presented as the "real thing" on pesn.com?!? That site is a sewer of every crooked and incompetent fool who thinks he has discovered perpetual motion and thinks he can get some bigger fool to give him millions to buy the secret!
In case you missed it, here is a like to a story by Rossi partner and pesn.com's own Sterling D. Allan where he breathlessly extols the wonders of Tilly's self-powering car:
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/tilley_article.pdfNote that Allan reports successful tests, complete with an expert observing, that prove the Tilley motor could not be powered by conventional means. He also mentions skeptics, but dismisses them because Tilley isn't collecting money from customer, so there's no possibility of a scandal.
Why in the world would anyone take this man or his web site seriously? The fact that Rossi has teamed up with Allan, as well as the European company mentioned in another thread that is also "selling" a perpetual motion electric generator, is the most damning evidence yet that he is nothing but a con man.
It’s not a cute trick, it’s retarded and half-assed, just like everything else in the test. By the way, if there was a flowmeter used to take accurate volume measurements, the data sure wasn’t in the report I read.
I found the New Energy Times site about a year ago, and I’ve been lurking on these threads..
There was always something that bothered me, and I just figured it out. Rossi claims that his device converts Ni to Cu and Fe...
All the theories for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) claim neutron formation and immediate capture by the metal atoms at the surface of the metal. During a reaction, many neutrons get captured, making heavier and heavier isotopes of the base material. Beta decay of the unstable isotopes increase the atomic weight.
For Ni-58 -> Cu-63 takes 5 neutrons, and one beta decay.
There is no path from Ni-58 to any stable Fe isotopes.
Rossi is a fraud.
I think there is LENR is real, and it really easy to prove with an isotope analysis of the starting material and the ending material. You will observe several new elements, and an increase of heavier isotopes and depletion of lighter isotopes
Great observation! I agree with you on LENR, too.
I’ve asked Wonder Warthog why, if he thinks it’s ok for Rossi to buy a fake engineering degree, why he himself didn’t buy one instead of attending LSU. Needless to say, WW refused to answer the question.
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