Obama’s ineligibility: Our Lexington and Concord moment is coming

Canada Free Press ^ | June 24, 2011 | Lawrence Sellin

[so_real]

I completely believe you. In fact, if I cared to spend a few hours in my post history, I would probably discover I was part of several of those discussions. I *really* did not, however, want to take the time to discern that when I feel it misses the point. It matters less to me "when" people became aware of the eligibility issue. It matters more to me "what" they do with that info once they've been made aware of it. I'm pleased that so many of the citizens I talk to, once they understand the problem, jump on board. Many folks just aren't yet aware that Obama's father was not a citizen. But we are reaching them. And our numbers are growing. And hopefully we reach a tipping point before the next election.

[DiogenesLamp]

Why do you believe Obama is not eligible to hold the office of president? His parentage was well known long before the election. What is the legal definition of a “natural born citizen”?

I cannot speak for others, but *I* am not making the claim he is not eligible. I am making the claim that he hasn't proven that he IS eligible. It's still in question. I further make the claim that if his father is indeed a foreign national, then he is automatically disqualified, but as of yet we do not know for sure who is his father.

There are those who argue that for legal purposes, the legal father *IS* the father, and so if a man's name is on a legal document (which we have yet to see.) attesting that he is the father, then for purposes of eligibility he *IS* the father. However, a woman putting a man's name on a birth certificate is not in my mind proof that the man is actually the father.

I assert that the truth is still indeterminate. Foolish people have made up their minds and consider the truth settled, even though they have no way of being sure.

[DiogenesLamp]

The issue was brought up before the election but was blown off in the state courts, where the legal action had to start. “On October 27, 2008, plaintiff-appellant, Leo Donofrio, a retired attorney acting Pro Se, sued Nina Mitchell Wells, Secretary of State of the State of New Jersey, in the Superior Court of New Jersey, Appellate Division, demanding the Secretary execute her statutory and Constitutional duties to police the security of ballots in New Jersey from fraudulent candidates ineligible to hold the office of President of the United States due to their not being “natural born citizens” as enumerated in Article 1, Section 2, of the US Constitution. “

And THAT is exactly how it should have started. Until an offense is committed (allowing an ineligible candidate on the ballot) then a suit cannot be brought because there hasn't yet been an injury.

[so_real]

On that I completely do not follow you. An individual who is a "dual citizen" was either born out of country, or was born of non-citizen lineage. Ergo, a dual citizen could never be a natural born citizen; they are mutually exclusive concepts. The only caveat is that those living at the time Constitution was signed were treated as if natural born. Otherwise the new nation could not have elected its first president. Are you arguing that the literal phrase "born in country of citizen parents" must have been used in a post in order to satisfy your quest? That's a bit too 'it all depends on what your definition of "is" is' for my tastes. It's not debate worthy.

[cynwoody]

Most Americans were not aware of Obama senior's citizenship before the election

That's absurd. Obama's unusual parentage was a cornerstone of his legend. Everybody knew it. Anyone who didn't was obviously too stupid to be voting.

as you well know or can now verify, Obama and his friends at the MSM have sealed virtually all of Obama's records, history etc. except "Dreams of My Father.

LOL! So you maintain he simultaneously hid his father's origin and trumpeted it to the tune of millions in book royalties?

[DiogenesLamp]

The President of the USA releases a FAKE BC and you think it is a ‘distraction’?

And where the hell is Donald Trump????

Is he seriously going to let Obama snow-job him with a fake document?

Methinks they were in cahoots. :)

[ilovesarah2012]

He has provided a short and long BC. Whether it is real or not, I have no way of knowing. Hawaii officials have said he was born there. The father listed was born in Kenya. No one disputes that. If Obama wanted to commit fraud, why couldn’t he have said his father was someone else, an American, and there wouldn’t have been any problem.

[DiogenesLamp]

perfect cover story. washed all the chants about the forgery and his ineligibility right out of the news cycle.

Yes, very opportune. One might say the order was given to "go" at just the right time. Of course Obama had no control over that whatsoever.

[DiogenesLamp]

perfect cover story. washed all the chants about the forgery and his ineligibility right out of the news cycle.

Oh, I forgot to mention this in the last post. Oklahoma was about to pass a law requiring proof of eligibility. The release of that image file and the constant chattering of the media claiming "HE RELEASED IT! HE RELEASED IT!" torpedoed what would have been an actual and real test of his credentials. I also think that Federal Money was threatened to be Withheld if Oklahoma passed this law. The governor refused to announce her support for it though it was EXTREMELY popular with her support base. What leverage but federal dollars?

[Aurorales]

Your challenge means nothing to me. You are telling lies on this thread. You are hijacking a thread about a subject you claim to not care about.

Why should any of us dig around FR to show a liar what he refuses to see.

Find it yourself or don’t. Who the hell cares. I just wanted to call you out.

[DiogenesLamp]

I don’t believe “natural born” has ever been decided as to definition and how it relates to the Constitution. If it had been, surely Hillary would have pointed that out.

This argument always irritates me. It relies on the theory that IDIOT Clinton is a genius. It further overlooks the point that had she done so, she would have completely offended her black constituency, without which she had no hope of winning at all. (They would have regarded it as a dirty trick because too many Americans think that being born in the country is all that is necessary.)

[DiogenesLamp]

Since the birthers and Obama agree that daddy was a Kenyan, how is the authenticity of the document even relevant?

Because if the original document has "father unknown" or a different name on it, Obama's story (and sympathy) would fall down like a house of cards. THAT's why it's relevant.

And I currently doubt strongly that his father was a Kenyan. I think his father was an American.

[bvw]

Well, to take the killing of Obama as a deliberate cover story is beyond consideration if only because of the location of his compound and the cell-phone is bringing down a lot of trouble for Obama the old Pakistan hand because of what it means about our relations with Pakistan.

BUT ... to take the TIMING of the raid as a cover of convenience opportunity is very plausible. That kind of abusive use of our national intelligence assets to-do-list of "targets of opportunity" is exactly what Clinton did in ordering the Sudan Missile Raid as cover for the news-cycle that would have otherwise highlighted the Monica Lewinsky appearance before the grand jury.

And who were some of the key administration players then? Why Hillary and Leon! Then and now. Same tactic.

[philman_36]

I am saying that it wasn't something everyone who was Constitutionally literate knew, nor was it something taught in American civics classes.
How in the hell can you know that?

Are you Professor X or God?
I'm almost 50 and I don't remember everything I was taught in a lot of classes. Do you?!

Early ineligibility arguments focused on dual citizenship or that he was “really” born in Kenya.
So what?! Does that make the issue of his parent's citizenship any less relevant either then or now?

I formed my own opinion...It is that the Constitution only mentions two subdivisions of U.S. citizen - natural born or naturalized.
So since your mind was made up, whether your personal conclusion was wright or wrong, if somebody didn't agree with you you get to go about acting like a damn fool?

I would like a final ruling on the issue and I think Orly Taitz is ill equipped to be “point” on this.
Well then you hire a lawyer and you bring it to court! At least she's on the field while you're sitting on the bench.

This has been an absolute three ring circus, truther Berg, CFP, the WND crowd putting up billboards asking “Where is the Birth Certificate?”.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Again, some people are on the field while you're on the bench. The sad thing is you're yelling "sack the quarterback" when your offense is on the field, not the other team's.

I said to “For $20 this would all go away!!!!!” that the document would, of course, be said to be fake.
It would have gone away and it's been proven to be fake. So everyone should just shut up now that this fake document has been presented?

This has, as Long Form COLB T-shirts and Coffee Mugs can attest, been damaging to our side.
Once again, thanks for sharing your opinion.

Despite your reply I still see no reason whatsoever for the attitude and behavior you are exhibiting now or in the past. To me your "stated reasons" are pathetically lacking for such virulence.

[DiogenesLamp]

No, those aren't birthers. Birthers want to redefine the Constitution to eliminate a President we don't like. The constitutional defernders are the ones pointing out that whether we like it or not, Obama is in fact constitutionally eligible.

They aren't pointing it out, because they have nothing to which they can point that agrees with them. They are ASSERTING that he is eligible, and ridiculing anyone who says he is not.

[cynwoody]

Try this Thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2116862/posts

Lose!

The phrase natural born only occurs once in your link, in the article, not the posts, and in connection with John McCain (quoting the famous SR 511), not Barack Obama.

[DiogenesLamp]

I would only make one qualification, and say that whether we like it or not, Obama appears to be Constitutionally eligible.

Based on what? What piece of writing in the last 250 years indicates that the alleged son of a foreign national is even slightly addressing the issue of divided allegiance? (The purpose of Article II.)

The CLOSEST piece of Writing of which I am aware is Madison's defense for Mr. Smith, but upon reading his further argument, that argues against Obama as well! (His Inherited Lands are in South Carolina, therefore he has a tie to the community. Where are Obama's inherited Lands? )

[masadaman]

Color is not citizenship. No one denied his father was black, but not everyone ran out and bought and read "Dreams' before and/or after the election. No one expected an unvetted candidate which is what we had. And except for a few, no one expected he would seal his complete and likely telling history once in office on day one. Did you?

My wording may not have been precise, but 'Dreams' being out there and 'trumpeted' offers little probative background such as school records that he has deliberately hidden including the original birth certificate that he found per 'Dreams'and then somehow misplaced in real life.

[bvw]

You made an excellent point:

"They are ASSERTING that he is eligible, and ridiculing anyone who says he is not."

As I said earlier, to have Obama removed on this basis he is ineligible is truly an existential threat to many in or relying upon the current establishments of our times--those of the "that's just the way things are" school of Philosophy.

Fellow surgeons laughed at Dr. Lister, his practices of hygienic surgery were too far from what they were familiar with in years and years of practice. Lister, of course, was right. They were horribly wrong.

One hundred and thirty years ago, almost 50% of the patients undergoing major surgery died from infection. As the famous saying went, "The operation was a success, but the patient died." In the 1870's, Lister was the first to treat wounds with dressings soaked in carbolic acid. Lister, in agreement with Dr. Louis Pasteur, suggested surgeons wash their hands and sterilize their instruments before operating. After significant resistance, British and American hospitals gradually adopted the sterile procedures promoted by Lister. Lister and Pasteur were personal friends who supported each other when viciously attacked by the medical establishment. When Pasteur was publicly honoured at age 70 by his medical peers, he turned and bowed his head towards Lister, saying: "the future belongs to him who has done the most for suffering humanity."

--DR. JOSEPH LISTER: MEDICAL REVOLUTIONARY

May G-d vouchsafe my words: The future belongs to those who stand for the Divinely-Inspired ideals of the Founders, and that includes we "birthers".

[DiogenesLamp]

Over the past two years I have emailed just about everyone I can think of regarding Obama not being eligible. He’s still in office.

Were you John Stewart, you could have had him out in 6 months.