Posted on 09/11/2006 2:38:16 PM PDT by witchypooy
Am family of 4 with a $25,000 income will have an effective FairTax rate of -1.29% (-$322 or a benefit to them of $322) even with zero tax free deductions (which is not possible in the real world). With a normal complement of tax free purchases, the rate will be an even greater negative value - meaning they'll have even a greater benefit. That can be seen easily even without the Calculator since the prebate is greater than the income that will be spent.
the prebate is greater than the income that will be spent.LOL! I thought it was a "refund of taxes paid". Instead you've confirmed what we all knew to be true, it's an entitlement.
What a maroon!
I'm sure you'll be interested to know that a 59th backer in the house has signed onto HR25 - Goode of VA
Just keeps growing ... and growing ... and growing ...
Those of you who have a negative effective rate under the FairTax may not be seeing the correct answer and those seeing large effective rates may need to re-check once the Calculator is known to be fixed. I'll try to let everyone know when it is.
He's asking a bit of a different question which is answered correctly in #41.
Answered in #41.
I believe the poster was answering a different question than was asked by your friend. The answer is in #41.
It;s possible you have a negative tax rate - see the comment in #44 about that.
I'd like to see what sort of comparative data is being obtained from the Calculator (I use an independent method of deriving the data). If I have further questions (or other comments) I'll respond to you by PM also. I would expect reciprocal confidentiality from you also.
I'd like to see what sort of comparative data is being obtained from the Calculator (I use an independent method of deriving the results). If I have further questions (or other comments) I'll respond to you by PM also. I would expect reciprocal confidentiality from you also.
I'd like to see what sort of comparative data is being obtained from the Calculator (I use an independent method of deriving the data). If I have further questions (or other comments) I'll respond to you by PM also. I would expect reciprocal confidentiality from you also.
Am family of 4 with a $25,000 income will have an effective FairTax rate of -1.29% (-$322 or a benefit to them of $322) even with zero tax free deductions (which is not possible in the real world). With a normal complement of tax free purchases, the rate will be an even greater negative value - meaning they'll have even a greater benefit. That can be seen easily even without the Calculator since the prebate is greater than the income that will be spent.Sorry, pigdog. I asked to see "how a family of 4 can get $25,000 worth of stuff tax free under the FairTax." You didn't do that. Show me the spending and the tax. Let's see the math (errr.... arithmetic).
The prebate is a refund of taxes. It is not conditioned upon the taxes paid (or not), but strictly upon family size. It is a tax refund, not an entitlement.How can you say it's a refund just two posts after claiming somebody has a negative tax rate? If it's a refund, the lowest tax rate possible would be 0%.
Answered in #41.No it wasn't.
If you'll send by Private Mail the parameters you used in the Calculator numbered as in the Calculator (along with the family size information) I'll independently check them and return the correct figure to you.Pigdog is now check other's math (I mean "arithmetic"). This is too funny! Will you post your "spreadsheet listing" when you are done?
With the FairTax added to big ticket items for the poor like like child care (can't buy used child care) and losing the income tax deduction, I'm not sure the working poor are going to be better off.
Rent and food are also big expense for the poor and the FairTax is added to those also.
The Social Security FICA tax system is the most REGRESSIVE tax against the poor that has ever been devised in the world, taxing the poor at 7.65% while taxing those over $92,000 in income a less and less net effective tax rate as their pay goes up, as they pay nothing on that portion of their income over $92,000.
Again, you are forgetting the effect of the earned income tax credit.
What makes you think that owning your own business under the FairTax would be any different? If you collect the sales tax, you get special notice from the taxing agency. If you don't sell your product or service to the public, you still need a certificate to avoid paying the FairTax on what you buy for your business. That also makes you subject to examination.
As the bill is written, I'm not sure how many of us will ultimately escape the scrutiny of the taxing authority.
Below is a link to a discussion of how to determine whether or not a tree is "used" under the FairTax.
http://www.fairtaxindiana.net/main/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=163
The FairTax authority will use snitches to identify tax evaders. Imagine that your neighbor is annoyed with you because your dog always barks at the mailman at the exact time he's taking his afternoon nape, and besides that, he's jealous that you just made a few, easy bucks, so he calls in an anonymous tip. He says that the tree you just sold, sans tax, was really a "new" tree and you don't have the original receipt to prove that the tree was indeed, "used".
The devil is in the details, as the saying goes.
If there is $25,000 spendable income, spending it would result is a cash register paid sales tax PRICE paid of $25.000 including $5,750 in FairTax. With a prebate of $6,072 the taxpayer is $322 better off overall. The actual COST to the taxpayer under the FairTax would be $322 less than $25,000 for the $25,000 purchase of stuff. He'd have the $25,000 worth of stuff plus $322 in his pocket. To the taxpayer, that is tax-free or better since no tax came out of his pocket but actually went into it.
In fact the taxpayer will be even better off since we didn't even factor in the effect of the decreased prices to start with which, I'm sure you recall, we agreed was a 9% price decrease when the income tax was removed. This would allow the taxpayer to buy a good bit MORE THAN what would have been $25,000 worth of "stuff" under the income tax - and which the taxpayer there would have to have earned about $26,500 to buy under that tax.
In other words compared to the income tax situation, the taxpayer has increased purchasing power and is much better off - and that's where the rubber meets the road.
"The prebate is a refund of taxes. It is not conditioned upon the taxes paid (or not), but strictly upon family size. "
It's not conditioned upon taxes paid or not paid so there's no "lowest possible tax rate" of 0% as you say. The taxpayer has a negative tax rate as stated and as shown in the example since he gets extra funds from the prebate that he would not otherwise have.
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