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In defense of Islam
FR ^ | 7/27/05 | minus_273

Posted on 07/26/2005 11:37:42 PM PDT by minus_273

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Yay, FR original content also mirrored on my blog It may be long winded, but I'm dead serious about this. I think we should use Sand-Nazi as our new term. What do you say Jim Rob?
1 posted on 07/26/2005 11:37:42 PM PDT by minus_273
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To: minus_273

Save for later


2 posted on 07/26/2005 11:39:26 PM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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The true followers of Islam are the head choppers. Their actions are guided by the word of Allah. The so-called Moderates you refer to are apostates, and deserve death.

Do yourself a favor and read the Qu'ran... the Hadiths... and educate yourself about who we are up against. The moment you show them mercy... the moment you fall for Taqiyya... will be the moment of your demise.

It's the truth.


3 posted on 07/26/2005 11:42:49 PM PDT by oolatec
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To: oolatec

sure, but you agree there are two camps here sort of like protestants and catholics (bad analogy, i know, but you should get the point). These apostates are the ones we want to not piss off. We need them to win.


4 posted on 07/26/2005 11:46:40 PM PDT by minus_273
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: minus_273

You are full of it, aren't ya? Go sweat it out- you got nothin' comin' here, sandy...


7 posted on 07/27/2005 12:04:08 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: hugoball

yeah, by my own admission, i don't anything about Islam. Every county does things out of its own self interest. It would be silly not to.

I agree with you on the peaceful muslim bit. However, I am talking about people another poster called "apostates". If by moderate muslims we mean moderate headchoppers,there is nothing modertate about them in reality. There are "apostates" who call themselves muslims and try to cling to some nominal similarites to the headchoppers. These are the people from which i think a martin luther type will need to emerge.

PS i'm hoping for a good discussion here.. im counting on not getting zotted (which would really suck since i've had this account since i joined FR over a year ago). Check out the key words that have been added.


8 posted on 07/27/2005 12:07:17 AM PDT by minus_273
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To: hugoball
yup, thats pretty much what i mean see my other reply
9 posted on 07/27/2005 12:09:31 AM PDT by minus_273
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To: minus_273
I remember reading a news story a few years ago about a very smart young man who clerked in a convenience store in the evenings. He used to tell his friends that he didn't worry about being robbed and then shot because he was confident of his ability to talk the robber out of shooting him. He said that he'd just give the robber the money, talk soothingly to the robber and all would be well.

That young man is dead now, shot by a robber of the convenience store. The young man's confidence in his own persuasive powers and in the persuasive force of sweet reason was mis-placed; the robber didn't listen, or, if he listened, was unconvinced.

Sometimes the only way to stay alive is to shoot first and save the words for the funeral of the other guy.

10 posted on 07/27/2005 12:18:30 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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To: minus_273

I like the term sand-nazi. I think it's fitting for those who follow that extreme ideology.

I think Islam is a false religion but I don't think all 1 billion or whatever people who are muslims deserve to be lumped into the same category as the "sand-nazis".

They deserve freedom so that they can safely question their religion and also learn about other religions, specifically Christianity.

IMHO.


11 posted on 07/27/2005 12:21:58 AM PDT by Miztiki (Pearland, TX (just southeast of Houston))
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To: minus_273
The curses of Islam are dreadful! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities. Thousands become brave and loyal soldiers: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

So said Sir Winston Churchill. I'm with him on this one.
12 posted on 07/27/2005 12:34:35 AM PDT by Jaysun (Democrats are motivated mainly and perhaps almost wholly by envy.)
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To: minus_273
Mulim killers are brainwashed by a muiltitude of hateful Imams and other leaders around the globe. You can't fight them WWII style.But there is a way to end this horror relatively quickly.

1.Identify these leaders (they never want to kill themselves for allah).

2.Make them permanently and quietly dissapear.

3.Have their immediate families dissappear permantly as well.

Total and immediate end of problem as the remaining scum understand the new strategy.

End of story

13 posted on 07/27/2005 12:51:58 AM PDT by squirt-gun
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To: CarrotAndStick; Cronos; Genghis Khan

PING!!!!!!


14 posted on 07/27/2005 3:11:41 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: minus_273

You admit to not knowing anything about Islam...I would suggest reading books written by Bernard Lewis on the subject, particularly "What Went Wrong", "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2,000 Years" and "The Crisis in Islam". He is the Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern Studies Emeritus at Princeton University, and is considered to be the leading authority on Islam in the western world.

I'm no expert on Islam either, but if you want to speak intelligently about the subject, you need to know a little more than what you can learn on FR or DU.

I, personally, do not believe Tancredo owes anyone an apology. Given the context of the conversation (if one reads the whole conversation) his comments are not only rational but approriate, in my opinion.

If a nuclear weapon were to go off in the center of New York City, how would our government, and the world react? I think the question is a fair one. What do you do?

Do you just pick out a city at random in the Mideast and drop one on it? Do you bomb Mecca as this guy theoretically proposed? Do you do nothing? Millions would certainly die, and do nothing but say "we are going to catch them"?

This guy did not just jump up and say "We should bomb Mecca", he was placing it in a framework of a theoretical situation.

If you think, for even a single second, that nobody in the US government is gaming (and I use that word with the "serious" meaning) those situations, you are wrong. Just because it is so horrible we can barely contemplate it doesn't mean it frees our government from the duty of planning for it.

Now, you may not agree with that, and maybe I don't either. But it IS a choice, one that you can be %100 sure SOMEONE has played out. And well they should. Would it be appropriate? I don't know. But I DO know destroying Mecca as an option, is no more or less palatable than destroying a city full of people.

Most Muslims I know are decent, regular people. They do not have the desire, will or mutilated ideology that is threatening to innocents, both muslim and non-muslim. The MAJOR problem here, is that these extremists LIVE in the mainstream of the muslim religion. I do not doubt for one second that many "normal" muslims know one, or more than one person who is spewing poisonous ideological rubbish. While we in the west do not generally interfere with people's desire or right to think, speak and disseminate a poisonous, treasonous ideology, it has, in my opinion, reached a point close to shouting "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater.

For that reason, Muslims must get off of their collective asses and start "taking out the garbage". I am sympathetic to thier plight. Nobody likes to be guilty by association, and the human response much of the time is to become defensive and more intractable.

But that is unsatisfactory. Muslims need to stand up, be counted and contribute to the solution of this problem. If they do not, the western world will, at some point, be forced to require them to make a choice, as in the Cowboy Bush's declaration "You are either with us or against us."

And let me tell you: If there is indeed a nuclear explosion or some other major catastrophe involving muslim terrorism, Americans and other westerners are not going to be quite as concerned with political correctness or sensitivity. And a lot of genuinely innocent muslims are going to suffer as a result.

So that is why the priority is for the Muslim community to cut this cancer out of thier midst, and disown them completely with no "But..." qualifiers. They have been AWOL from this responsibility, and next time, it may be to late for them to take action, and I would hate to see that.

As for the correct term of definition, I prefer "Islamowhackofacists".


15 posted on 07/27/2005 3:21:44 AM PDT by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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To: rlmorel
As for Tancredo's remarks I said pretty much the same on another thread yesterday. Your post said it better and is outstanding.

As far as Tancredo's statements are concerned I see no reason for an apology. The Muslims, extgremists and moderates need to understand what may happen if they allow things to get out of control.
16 posted on 07/27/2005 4:26:47 AM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: hugoball
"But what I think you are missing is that Islam may be profoundly flawed at it's inception; it is, and always has been an exceedingly violent and aggressive religion from it's inception, and is incompatible with any real intellectual openness or critical honesty"

That's exactly true.

Islam has yet to undertake a period of enlightenment, as did Christianity in the Middle Ages. And until it does, that's where it will be stuck:

In the Middle Ages.

17 posted on 07/27/2005 4:35:53 AM PDT by Senator Goldwater
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To: minus_273

I agree. There are terrorist Muslims and peace-loving and freedom-loving Muslims (Hamid Karzai, Allawi, Jaafari, King Abdullah, the millions of people who voted in Afghanistan and Iraq, and so on). Islam is not the enemy. The enemy is radical Islamism.


18 posted on 07/27/2005 4:46:39 AM PDT by Reader of news
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To: Dubya's fan

Who says we cant take on a billion muslims??!!! We will just have to reload faster; It's a tactical matter. Actually, we cant kill all the muslims in the world, but we can begin with the arabs.


19 posted on 07/27/2005 5:47:04 AM PDT by Jeffery T.
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To: rlmorel

If we were to bomb Mecca then every Muslim in the world would rise up and take arms against the U.S. If the Kabba, in Mecca, is violated it is the duty of every Muslim to take up arms against those who violate the Kabba.


20 posted on 07/27/2005 5:53:52 AM PDT by Jeffery T.
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