Biology textbook hearings prompt science disputes [Texas]

Knight Ridder Newspapers ^ | 08 July 2003 | MATT FRAZIER

[CobaltBlue]

Fallible men also wrote all the books of the infallible Bible, and collected them, too. Mysterious, no?

As for the argument that it contradicts the Bible, let's just agree to disagree.

We already know that we use different Bibles and read them in different ways.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! I can really relate to the scene at your house! My daughter and two step kids were within two years of each other and all of their friends “hung out” at our place.

There were always lots of cars at our house and it wasn't unusual to have a dozen or so for dinner. They'd stay up late watching TV or playing music, we'd go to bed.

One morning we woke up and a kid was sleeping on the couch in a trench coat. One by one, our three kids came downstairs and we asked each of them who the kid was. None of them knew the kid.

So we woke him up and discovered he was a runaway who just saw all the cars and teenagers and decided to hang out and spent the night. Ahem… Obviously we had a little family council to make sure all the kids were known and the doors locked before they came to bed.

I’m glad you survived the teenage years so well! And I’m glad our ‘extra’ teenager wasn’t dangerous.

[AndrewC]

What about all the people who were born before 33 AD? Did they all go to hell? Even the Prophets? And what about all the people all over the world who never heard of Jesus? Are they damned, too?

What does it take to be saved? Faith, according to Protestants. Is faith in God enough?

Well, this may help you.

Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[AndrewC]

So teach me what the correct action is.

You stated the correct action. However, you had to describe the wrong action. Namely, that keeping the money would be wrong. After all, accepting money is a good thing, is it not?

[f.Christian]

15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts:
for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

[16] The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached,
and every man presseth into it.

[17] And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

[18] Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery:
and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table:
moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:
the rich man also died, and was buried;

[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water,
and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things,
and likewise Lazarus evil things:
but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed:
so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us,
that would come from thence.

[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded,
though one rose from the dead.

[AndrewC]

Thank you very much!

[js1138]

OK, indirectly I said keeping the money would allow someone to suffer. But I phrased it positively -- this is the right thing to do, not because the police are watching. It is easier to teach right motives than a list of do nots. I don't think we have a real disagreement here.

[exmarine]

I don't deny this. There are plenty of old artifacts found to corroborate many things. This isn't supernatural evidence of anything.

Historical and archeological accuracy regarding places, events, etc., show that the writers did not make things up as they went along. It shows that the events written about are true (e.g. walls of Jericho, etc.). I will tell you why people don't want to admit biblical accuracy - because the implication is that if the events, places, names are true, then it lends credence to the SUPERNATURAL events as well, but the naturalist declares the supernatural is impossible a priori (it's assumed beforehand). It goes like this: Since there are no miracles, the bible can't be true. But, the fact of the matter is that a skeptic can only say that he has never personally experienced a miracle -he cannot accurately say that a miracle or the supernatural does not exist - he can only BELIEVE it doesn't. Let's face it - the supernatural can possibly exist OUTSIDE the knowledge of a naturalist.

[Junior]

...in Jewish theology, Satan is merely one of God's messengers.

In Medieval Christian theology, Satan served in the role of prosecuting attorney in a sort of celestial court wherein God was the judge and man was on trial. I've never been certain where the modern concept of Satan being almost equal to God -- except thoroughly evil -- came from. Everything in Scripture points to Satan still being subservient to the Almighty (even the temptation in the desert sort of falls along these lines -- Satan "sent" to test Jesus).

[f.Christian]

Let's keep truth obscured complicated evolution is the way truth life placemaker !

[AndrewC]

I don't think we have a real disagreement here.

Yes, I know we don't. My point was to support Alamo-girl's argument that the "foreground" requires a "background".

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for supporting my point! Hugs!

[AndrewC]

Thank you so much for supporting my point! Hugs!

You are very welcome, and one other point. Logic begins from the unprovable.

[Lurking Libertarian]

In Medieval Christian theology, Satan served in the role of prosecuting attorney in a sort of celestial court wherein God was the judge and man was on trial.

A common image in post-Biblical Jewish writings as well; in fact, the word "satan" in Hebrew means "accuser."

[Aric2000]

Actually Junior, it came about when the Christian curch of early times were trying to convert Pagans.

Most Pagan religions had 2 gods, or one that held both Yin and Yang.

In other words, there was an evil god, and then there was a good god, and the 2 fought for the souls of men.

The Christian church did NOT have this, they had God, this all loving and caring being, and a fallen angel, Lucifer, but he was weak. This did NOT make sense to most pagans, so Christianity evolved so that the Pagans could convert comfortably.

Christianity could not compete with some of the pagan gods, the christian god was weak, a pacifist etc, so Christians changed the image and power of their god in order to gain converts.

The history of the early church is ripe with this sort of thing.

It's an interesting study.

[balrog666]

I think the answer to your question is we had good luck.

People make their own luck. Congratulations on your success so far; my best wishes and hopes for their own success to your children as well!

[f.Christian]

oracles of battered babbling babies placemakers !

[f.Christian]

evolution permanently dead placemaker !

[jennyp]

Healing is one of the approved calls, but it requires knowledge, and knowledge requires curiosity, and curiosity requires fearlessness about what will be found. One of the great tragedies of Western religion is the conflation of knowledge with sin, curiosity with heresy and atheism.

Astute-observation placemarker.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the additional point!