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If Secession Was Illegal - then How Come...?
The Patriotist ^
| 2003
| Al Benson, Jr.
Posted on 06/12/2003 5:58:28 AM PDT by Aurelius
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To: Grand Old Partisan
and posting STUPIDITY & FOOLISHNESS twice, doesn't make you appear to be smart.
free dixie,sw
1,521
posted on
07/11/2003 9:52:55 AM PDT
by
stand watie
(Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
To: GOPcapitalist
gopartisan is just a FOOL.
ignore him and maybe he'll head back to DU, where FOOLS DWELL.
free dixie,sw
1,522
posted on
07/11/2003 9:54:34 AM PDT
by
stand watie
(Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
To: stand watie
DU is for Democrats -- like Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, and all those other Confederate traitors. Free Republican is for Republicans and other patriots. Shoo fly!
1,523
posted on
07/11/2003 9:55:19 AM PDT
by
Grand Old Partisan
(You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
To: stand watie
DU is for Democrats -- like Jefferson Davis, Alexander Stephens, and all those other Confederate traitors. Free Republic is for Republicans and other patriots. Shoo fly!
1,524
posted on
07/11/2003 9:56:26 AM PDT
by
Grand Old Partisan
(You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
To: Grand Old Partisan
DU is where FOOLS like you dwell. BE GONE!
free dixie,sw
1,525
posted on
07/11/2003 9:57:43 AM PDT
by
stand watie
(Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
To: stand watie
I am already writing to you from a foreign country. I'm in California.
To: capitan_refugio
ROTFL!
southrons call your location "the people's republic of kalifornistan" and sometimes things WORSE!
are you folks REALLY going to dump gray davis & install the TERMINATOR in his place????? it sure sounds like that will happen, when i listened to the news this am.
free dixie,sw
1,527
posted on
07/11/2003 10:27:52 AM PDT
by
stand watie
(Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
To: stand watie
Does your notion of southron include the millions of legal immigrants living in the South who are from Mexico, Pakistan, Guatemala, etc.?
1,528
posted on
07/11/2003 10:40:27 AM PDT
by
Grand Old Partisan
(You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
To: GOPcapitalist
A constitutional position that 'high' crimes and misdemeanors meant only 'public' crimes as supported by English Common Law, is a restrictive not loose interpretation of the US Constitution. One might simply point out that had the founders meant all crimes and misdemeanors they would have omitted the word 'high'. It is your position that requires a loosening of the construct, not mine.
Original intent by the founders in the case of impeachment means Blackstone's commentaries on offences against public justice
False. You've shown no evidence that is what the founders meant at all.
Blackstone's Commentaries on English Law pre-date the American Presidency and his commentary on Offenses Against Public Justice refer to judicial appointments, not Presidents who face election every four years.
I'm quite sure the founders did not intend the US Presidency to be a lifetime appointment. So why should they apply the same impeachment standards to elected presidents that England did to appointed judges? Try again.
1,529
posted on
07/11/2003 12:13:21 PM PDT
by
mac_truck
(Long Live Fredonia!)
To: Non-Sequitur
[n-s]
You seem fixed on believing that Abraham Lincoln was the only man in America who believed that blacks were not the equal of whites and that Robert Lincoln was the only man who didn't serve in the army during the Civil War You seem to be fixed on sitting in a corner attempting to think off, being unsuccessful in the attempt due to limited resources.
To: Grand Old Partisan
Has the following act of secession been repealed? From
The Daily Picayune, New Orleans, Dec 2, 1860:
The New York Express has the following: The Republicans and others in the North who denounce Southern secession, forget that the records of the Massachusetts legislation have them in resolutions to the following effect:
"Resolved, That the annexation of Texas is, ipse facto, a dissolution of the Union."
"Resolved, That Texas being annexed, Massachusetts is out of the Union"
These resolutions, we are told, stand unrepealed. With the personal liberty bill, these resolutions embody nullification in a two-fold form. Supposing now that Massachusetts repeals her "out of the Union act," and with it her personal liberty bill, and thus restores herself to the Union under the constitution.
For all these years, Massachusetts has been out of the Union. Maybe this means Teddy Kennedy can't vote in the Senate anymore.
To: rustbucket
The Militia Act does not apply to a state that seceded...The Supreme Court said otherwise.
Walt
1,532
posted on
07/11/2003 1:44:40 PM PDT
by
WhiskeyPapa
(Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
To: rustbucket
What about New York and Virginia's conditions on ratification of the Constitution that they could resume government again if they wished?Based in natural law, not U.S. law.
Under U.S. law, no state may get out of the Union on its own mere resolve.
Walt
1,533
posted on
07/11/2003 1:46:09 PM PDT
by
WhiskeyPapa
(Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
To: WhiskeyPapa
"If it be supposed that among the states that are united by the federal tie there are some which exclusively enjoy the principal advantages of union, or whose prosperity entirely depends on the duration of that union, it is unquestionable that they will always be ready to support the central government in enforcing the obedience of the others. But the government would then be exerting a force not derived from itself, but from a principle contrary to its nature." - Alexis de Tocqueville
To: rustbucket
I imagine the Federalists knew they could never get the Constitution ratified if they included a "thou shalt not secede" clause in the Constitution.Probably not. But they got the phrase "this Constitution and the laws made in pursuance shall be the supreme law of the land..." into the Constitution.
Then they made sure to pass the Judiciary Act of 1789 and the Militia Act of 1792.
And that was all it took -- under law.
Walt
1,535
posted on
07/11/2003 1:49:24 PM PDT
by
WhiskeyPapa
(Virtue is the uncontested prize.)
To: WhiskeyPapa
Based in natural law, not U.S. law.Let's see. Southern states couldn't be represented in Congress unless they passed the 14th Amendment and made it law. However, conditions put upon ratification of the Constitution by the states that formed the Union can be ignored. OK, got it.
To: rustbucket
"Massachusetts has been out of the Union"
Secession is impossible and meaningless.
1,537
posted on
07/11/2003 1:59:20 PM PDT
by
Grand Old Partisan
(You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
To: WhiskeyPapa
If these quotes from James Madison have been posted here (all or in part), I apologize. During the "Nullification Crisis," when Calhoun was proclaiming that State sovereignty not only authorized South Carolina to nullify (fail to enforce) laws passed by Congress, but also to unilaterally secede, Madison made these statements:
"The conduct of S. Carolina has called forth not only the question of nullification; but the more formidable one of secession. It is asked whether a State by resuming the sovereign form in which it entered the Union, may not of right withdraw from it at will. As this is a simple question whether a State, more that an individual, has a right to violate its engagements, it would seem that it might be safely left to answer itself. But the countenance given to the claim shows that it cannot be so lightly dismissed. The natural feelings which laudably attach the people composing a State, to its authority and importance, are at present too much excited by the unnatural feelings, with which they have been inspired against their brethren of other States, not to expose them, to the danger of being misled into erroneous views of the nature of the Union and the interest they have in it. One thing at least seems to be too clear to be questioned; that whilst a State remains within the Union it cannot withdraw its citizens from the operation of the Constitution laws of the Union. In the event of an actual secession without the Consent of the Co-States, the course to be pursued by these involves questions painful in the discussion of them. God grant that the menacing appearances, which obtruded it may not be followed by positive occurrences requiring the more painful task of deciding them!" (Emphasis in original).
Madison also states (c. 1832):
"An inference from the doctrine that a single State has the right to secede at will from the rest is that the rest would have an equal right to secede from it; in other words, to turn it, against its will, out of its union with them. Such a doctrine would not, till of late been palatable anywhere, and nowhere less so than where it is now most contended for."
To: WhiskeyPapa
Heavens, we've debated that 'laws made in pursuance' clause to death. And you still don't understand it. Shall we declare a truce on it? We won't convince each other.
To: Grand Old Partisan
provided that they are religious, politically conservative,pro-life,anti-tax,anti-nanny state & LOVE LIBERTY they will be welcome, regardless of their origion.
otoh, if they hate all those things they will be "encouraged" to go north to the land of the "oh, so PC and wunerfull,wunerfull" Socialist States of Amerika.
the southland has always been more tolerant of "difference" than the north.
one of the things that galls me about the north is my business partner, who happens to be beautiful, female & Jewish, is STILL discriminated against by those wonderful yankees that you think are so great. damnyankees make me gag.
FRee dixie,sw
1,540
posted on
07/11/2003 2:03:42 PM PDT
by
stand watie
(Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
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