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Why America lost the "Civil War"
http://calltodecision.com/Civil%20War.html ^ | October 30, 2002 | Nat G. Rudulph

Posted on 11/02/2002 11:20:01 AM PST by Aurelius

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To: x
From what I've seen, Lincoln was acting in an interim capacity when Congress was out of session. When it was in session it passed laws that confirmed his suspension of habeas corpus. If Congress had disagreed with Lincoln and undone his action, its decision would surely have prevailed over his, and rightly so, though they were all duly-elected "representatives of the people." Just how representative of the people the Confederate Congress or Jefferson Davis was is also open to question. In any event, from the point of view of those who were detained, the fact of the suspension of the writ was more important than who initiated it. The most significant drawback in the article that was posted is that it ignores that the Confederacy applied the same tactics of control or oppression that it attacks Lincoln and the Unionists for employing.

As you probably know, Governor Hicks of Maryland was very supportive of the arrests, saying something to the effect that the problem was not the arrests, but the fact that the people arrested were later released.

It so comical that the neo-rebs show all this umbrage over these arrrests. The police chief of Baltimore was arrested. What an outrage! The fact that he helped blow up railroad bridges and was (after being released) a serving officer in the insurgent army doesn't mean a thing. The neo-rebs profess outrage just because the feds carried out the most fundamental duties of government.

One thing is clear, this police chief would not have donned the gray if he'd been hung as befitted a traitor. And it certainly bears repeating that dozens of loyal Union men were hanged in the so-called CSA having done nothing overt at all.

It's all more boo-hoo-hoo from the neo-rebs. "Mean old Lincoln kicked our butts!"

The fact is that President Lincoln's actions in Maryland, as so often, were masterful in concept and execution. The neo-rebs jut can't stand it because Lincoln outfoxed the traitors at every turn.

Walt

121 posted on 11/04/2002 8:14:46 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: x
From what I've seen, Lincoln was acting in an interim capacity when Congress was out of session.

The Chief executive making legislative decisions is a bad idea - the Founders knew that.

122 posted on 11/04/2002 8:18:38 AM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: stainlessbanner
I guess it doesn't matter to you that one person made the decision vs. representatives of the people?

Who made the decision to open fire on Sumter? Was that done by the representatives of the people or by just one man?

123 posted on 11/04/2002 8:29:31 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
Who made the decision to open fire on Sumter? Was that done by the representatives of the people or by just one man?

Shhhhhhhh.......common sense doesn't figure into the neo-reb rant, unless it can be shown to help the slave power.

Walt

124 posted on 11/04/2002 8:32:49 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: stainlessbanner
From what I've seen, Lincoln was acting in an interim capacity when Congress was out of session.

The Chief executive making legislative decisions is a bad idea - the Founders knew that.

Suspending the Writ doesn't fall into that category.

From the Prize Cases majority opinion (1862):

"....By the Constitution, Congress alone has the power to declare a national or foreign war. It cannot declare war against a State, or any number of States, by virtue of any clause in the Constitution. The Constitution confers on the President the whole Executive power. He is bound to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. He is Commander-in-chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States when called into the actual service of the United States. He has no power to initiate or declare a war either against a foreign nation or a domestic State. But, by the Acts of Congress of February 28th, 1795, and 3d of March, 1807, he is authorized to called out the militia and use the military and naval forces of the United States in case of invasion by foreign nations and to suppress insurrection against the government of a State or of the United States."

The sesesh wanted some sort of nirvana not encompassed within the human experience. That is one reason they were thrown down in defeat and ignominious disgrace.

Walt

125 posted on 11/04/2002 8:42:11 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: Grand Old Partisan
The United States is not "My Country". The United States Government is the Occupying force of "My Country".

After the war of Yankee Aggression, the North Occupied the South. They gave us our country defacto after defeating our armies in the field they Occupied our lands. You do not occupy your own country. You occupy ENEMY countries. Thank you Secretary of war Stanton. You encouraged Congress to give us, what we had desired but could not achieve by force of arms.

You gave the South a Country of their own.

We still see it that way.
126 posted on 11/04/2002 8:56:16 AM PST by Leatherneck_MT
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To: Aurelius
At least you have responded to me twice without mentioning the name of Jefferson Davis; that at least is progress.

No point to it. You aren't interested in Davis and his crimes, and if I try and point out the errors in this work of fiction you would accuse me of changing the subject. Again.

127 posted on 11/04/2002 9:02:27 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Aurelius
America lost the "civil war" because she lost her soul. You opine that those were necessary war measures? Then why were they never employed by the Confederacy even in the dark days of imminent defeat? It was because the South still adhered to the transcendence of principle.

Every time I read stuff like this, I can't help but laugh, then stare at the words with bewilderment. "Transcendence of principle?" What the hell is that?

The South did not believe that the end justified the means. Most Southerners believed that right and wrong and truth were God-given, and not man's creation.

The author would do well not to feign some type of holiness here by mentioning the Father.

Therefore, man had to submit to them. It was not man's place to decide that principles could be abandoned when expedient. Robert E. Lee said it best: "There is a true glory and a true honour; the glory of duty done the honour of the integrity of principle."

There's that stupid word again. Man had to "submit to them?" I'll say! There was a whole lot of "submitting" going on.

Transcendence means "above and independent of, and supreme." To recognize the transcendence of principle is to recognize that there are absolutes, and that absolutes must come from a Creator. It is to acknowledge that these absolutes are not social constructs that have evolved over time or situational posits that can be altered when fashionable. This humility leads men to respect authority, honor their heritage, and submit to the wisdom that has preceded them, acknowledging their own dependence, and not imagining that they are autonomous, without accountability.

The correct definition is given, but the author can't claim its use truthfully with a straight face.

It is chiefly social and familial accountability, enabled by the presence of law written in the conscience of humanity, which restrains the evil that is present within man, thereby establishing civilization.

Really?

The reality of evil within humanity is evident in the corrupting effect of power, since power is of itself neither good nor evil. Power, in its simplest form, is the lack of restraint, while restraint is accountability in some form. Enduring and benevolent civilizations have recognized this and embraced restraints to ensure that human power would not be concentrated to their detriment. The Constitution was a codified restraint of this kind.

Do tell! What was "evil?" And, which Constitution is the author speaking about?

Restraints on the central government are as necessary to protect us from tyranny as the balance between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

But not the "tyranny" of bondage. That's okay if the chain doesn't fit around your neck.

The victors justified themselves to the world and history by brute force and sly obfuscation. The elimination of slavery was trumpeted as the justifying crown of victory. As to saving the Union, is that not like preserving a marriage by beating the wife into submission?

But had the Confederacy won, "brute force" would have still been the practice of the day. The end of slavery was not the "justifying crown," but don't sound so sorrowful over its loss.

The result is the humanist monster-state, and activist judges who reinvent what the constitution means. They have lost the ability to understand and receive it, since they have abandoned the transcendence of principle.

Sigh. "Principle." I would say that the author never had it or his "principle" is misplaced.

Both sides lost. The U.S. lost its character and began the abandonment of transcendent foundations. Dixie lost its will to live. Yet where principles remain- under cold ashes, deeply buried remains an ember of hope. And where there is a smoldering hope, the fire may yet burn again.

Burn again? Well you better come loaded for bear. You're gonna need it.

No mercy.
Coming soon: Tha SYNDICATE.

128 posted on 11/04/2002 9:36:13 AM PST by rdb3
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To: WhiskeyPapa
"I know you don't respect ol' GW,...

It is possible to respect George Washington, as a I certainly do, without also believing that everything he ever was Holy Absolute Truth. That seems to be what you believe and it is a seriously delusional belief.

129 posted on 11/04/2002 9:37:40 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: Non-Sequitur
"No point to it."

If I have finally gotten you to recognize that then at least there has been progress.

130 posted on 11/04/2002 9:39:23 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
and who is the givernment?

This line of questioning will lead you to the proper answer. Let's just say that even a loyal army can be effected if their wives. mothers, and themselves want to throw out a tyrant.

131 posted on 11/04/2002 9:40:51 AM PST by breakem
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To: rdb3
Why don't you try to think of someone who would be interested in reading your post and repost it to them.
132 posted on 11/04/2002 9:43:01 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
Wazza matta, Aurelius? Can't handle the truth?

You didn't refute a word I said. Keep on posting articles ripe with hypocrisy about "freedom" in this scenario, and I will continue to hammer the hell out of them.

I'm in your face. Do something about it.

No mercy.
Coming soon: Tha SYNDICATE.

133 posted on 11/04/2002 9:48:14 AM PST by rdb3
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To: breakem
"and who is the government?"

I hope you are not expecting me to answer "it is us" because I sure as hell don't believe that.

Civilized society, since the beginning of civilization, has consisted of two classes: one in which most members were productive and one whose members produced nothing of value but lived off of the labour of the first class, the proceeds of which was taken by force. The second class is the government. In as much as such systems have been the common form of society for at least 12,000 years, I find little grounds for belief that sociities can be expected to have much influence on the form of government that they suffere.

134 posted on 11/04/2002 9:56:50 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: rdb3
"Do something about it."

I will, I will ignore you, which I wouldn't do if I thought you had something worthwhile to say.

135 posted on 11/04/2002 9:59:08 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
Realize that our exchanges are pointless? No secret there. But you keep initiating them.
136 posted on 11/04/2002 9:59:45 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Aurelius
I always have something to say to slavery apologists.

Like I said, I'm in your face. Move me.

No mercy.
Coming soon: Tha SYNDICATE.

137 posted on 11/04/2002 10:00:34 AM PST by rdb3
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To: rdb3
"Like I said, I'm in your face. Move me."

Try that on somebody who gives a shit.

And you have the wrong person, because the last thing that I am is a slavery apologist.

138 posted on 11/04/2002 10:04:57 AM PST by Aurelius
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To: Aurelius
1000 people cannot control 10 million. If the people are willing to take action the no government can govern without the consent of the governed.
139 posted on 11/04/2002 10:09:52 AM PST by breakem
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To: Aurelius
Shakespeare must be jealous of your writing skills!

Of course you are! You can't have it both ways.

No mercy.
Coming soon: Tha SYNDICATE.

140 posted on 11/04/2002 10:11:03 AM PST by rdb3
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