The Eucharist of Jesus Christ

The Gospel of John, Chapter Six, The Holy Bible ^ | October 2, AD 2002 | the_doc

[ThomasMore]

I will not use the terms as gratuitous insults, but I don't see how we can reasonably avoid certain unpleasant historical terms

Your CUTENESS mocks the great virtue of LOVE! What are you, the Eddy Haskel of FR! ;^)

[Rambler]

You are flatly refusing to admit the obvious--which is that I rigorously proved my position in my article, Rambler.

You haven't proved anything.

Don't make me your enemy, friend. If you do, you will discover with horrifying clarity on Judgment Day that you really are God's enemy--and have been since the Fall of man in Eden.

Listen, friend, you may think you speak for God, but one day you'll realize that you are the one who really is God's enemy.

But my "opinion" is merely a correct reading of the Scriptures.

You still haven't answered my question on this one. Who says? You?

[Catholicguy]

Wow it is amazing how many places you had to go to refute one mans work

<> My responses were posted for the lurkers. I thought it useful to have the Catholic viewpoint presented dispassionately. I have no desire to engage in polemics with Calvinists nor to insert myself in the line of rheotrical fire twxit arminian and calvinist.<>

[SoothingDave]

The Church got its authority from Jesus.

How do you know that Dave? Who told you that ?

My mom and dad.

Then wrote and compiled the Bible. That's linear.

Thats funny I could have sworn the bible was thev WORD of God delivered by the Holy Spirit ....You have no respect for it..no wonder you think men wrote it

You think men didn't write it?

Men wrote the Scriptures. Inspired by God, but men nonethless. Anyone who understood the Incarnation would understand how God works through and with men, without obliterating the will of men.

Those who need to know that they won't be held responsible desire a God who enslaves.

SD

[SoothingDave]

"Queen of Hell, the Sovereign Mistress of Devils" --- go ask old Alphonse himself. You know where to reach him, don't you?

What part of that is the definition of "Theotokos?"

SD

[RnMomof7]

Just happens we have a real authority on Melanchthon


PSSSSSSSS Hey Jean over here :>))..Hey Wrigley in case Jean misses this will you let him know his favorite topic just popped up:>) Here




http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/761987/posts?page=50#50

[ThomasMore]

Transubstantiation was not "doctrine" till 1215 when Pope Innocent III made " official "dogma of the church.

The doctrine of Trinity wasn't until the Council of Niceea. Does that negate its validity before then? Straw man argument, Mom. Developement and statements of dofma and doctrine coincide with heretical activity. Hence, all the anathemas in the Trent documents. Try 1039 and Berengarius for transubstantiation.

[Frumanchu]

Your "unexamined bias" is that all Truth comes from Scripture. That if it is not in Scripture, it is not true. You create a "circular" argument by having the Church be created by Scripture. That is exactly backwards.

My "bias" is that all truth necessary for salvation comes from Scripture. I have the choice between freedom in Christ or slavery in the Roman Catholic Church. I'll take freedom in Christ, thanks. The Scriptures say I need to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, not that I need to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ, apostolic succession, and transusbstantiation, make sure I don't miss mass and a long list of other things. That is not to say that I'm free to live my life as a sinner, saved regardless of what I do. Everything I need to know I learn in the Bible.

The Church testifys to the authenticity of Scripture, not the other way around.

Granted, and it was done so several times over hundreds of years ago.

Which came first, the Church or the New Testament?

The catholic faith came long before the Catholic faith. The church was established first, then the final canon of Scripture, then the Church.

As I said, this argument will go nowhere. You will continue to appeal to history and tradition as proof of the claims of the Roman Catholic Church, and I will continue to point to Scriptural evidence refuting it. But what do I know about Scripture? I'm not the Roman Catholic Church....

[Matchett-PI]

"If being adult means that one sees only evil in others and only good in oneself, then I will stay immature."

Somehow I think that is what the Pharisees said to Jesus when he exposed their hypocricy.

[RnMomof7]

Who stands for the unborn? Who stands against adultery? Who stands against contraception?

Having "moral stands" does not save anyone. Only Jesus saves Dave.

[RobbyS]

Martin Luther took the words in a literal sense and, of course, the Eastern churches also believe in the Real Presence. Even Calvin interepreted them in a sense that allowed the "power" of Jesus to be present even if huis person was not. Why accept, as you do, the rationist/reductionist views of the unspiritual Mr. Zwingli, whose primary concern was to get rid of the priesthood.

[Woodkirk]

You will have to ask your beloved Alphonse di Ligouri --
he was the authority on your Theotokos -- Queen of Hell,
Mistress of Devils. You do believe in Tradition, don't you?

[RobbyS]

Do you approve of this sort of mockery? It is like saying that Protestants keep the Holy Spirit stowed in a book, and have but to open it to conjure its power. Talk about hocus pocus.

[SoothingDave]

You will have to ask your beloved Alphonse di Ligouri -- he was the authority on your Theotokos -- Queen of Hell, Mistress of Devils. You do believe in Tradition, don't you?

You don't have an answer? You used to. C'mon kirk, tell us what "theotokos" means.

SD

[SoothingDave]

"If being adult means that one sees only evil in others and only good in oneself, then I will stay immature."

Somehow I think that is what the Pharisees said to Jesus when he exposed their hypocricy.

You are comparing waving a bloody shirt to stir the natives with the actions of Jesus?

That's two of you guys today who think you are God.

SD

[RnMomof7]

The Church got its authority from Jesus.
How do you know that Dave? Who told you that ?
My mom and dad.

So how do they know?

Then wrote and compiled the Bible. That's linear. Thats funny I could have sworn the bible was thev WORD of God delivered by the Holy Spirit ....You have no respect for it..no wonder you think men wrote it
You think men didn't write it?

It is no wonder you have no respect for it..that is except the 4 or 5 verses that you agree with..Tell me Dave if the Bible was written by Catholics why did they not teach the doctrine of Eucharist or The Sinlessness of Mary or the Assumption or praying to the dead saints in their "book"

I can tell you why Dave they are the doctrine of men ..not the truth and the word of God is truth

Men wrote the Scriptures. Inspired by God, but men nonethless. Anyone who understood the Incarnation would understand how God works through and with men, without obliterating the will of men.

Yes God works through men and the Hand of men penned it but it is God Breathed

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect(i.e. complete), throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17).

[RobbyS]

This is like elephant dung. You had better explain yourself or I am going to press the abuse button.

[RnMomof7]

Tom..The fact is that is is presented that the apostles agreed with the doctrine...that fact is they did not even consider it. It was a doctrine developed over time..it is NOT as crystal clear as it is presented by some.

[Catholicguy]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm

<>Real Presence in the Eucharist<>

[SoothingDave]

The Church got its authority from Jesus.

How do you know that Dave? Who told you that ?

My mom and dad.

So how do they know?

Their parents told them, and their parents told them. No one picks up a book and comes to believe in God because of it. The Church, the Body of Christ, the believers impart the faith to new one, especially children.

I believe in God because people told me, not because a book claims He exists.

It is no wonder you have no respect for it..that is except the 4 or 5 verses that you agree with..

Tsk, tsk tsk. Give me a little respect, huh? Just because people disagree with your pet interpretation doesn't mean we have no respect for Scripture. Everyone who disagrees must be a devil, right?

Tell me Dave if the Bible was written by Catholics why did they not teach the doctrine of Eucharist or The Sinlessness of Mary or the Assumption or praying to the dead saints in their "book"

They do. It's just that a guide is required to understand.

SD