Posted on 08/05/2012 7:20:53 PM PDT by Syncro
I don’t have time to discuss issues with those that twist what I say into what they want to believe in order to attack my statements.
Or in the case of this Senate race those that INSIST that NO tea partiers in WI support Neumann.
No need to try to convince people that won’t budge from their pre convieved beliefs.
I have spoken to dozens of tea partiers and other conservatives in the last couple of days that support Neumann.
And have also seen hundreds of people come out to suppoert Neumann at several rallies recently.
IMO any local tea party group that overall supports one candidate or another I question as some in their group may support a different candidate, yet the “leader” of the tea party group comes out for a candidate, as if all the members are behind that particular “leader”
That’s the way unions work with their support, not paying attention to what the members really want.
One 9/12-Tea Party type person has vetted candidates quite well (and decided on Neumann) has spoken to many that did not support Neumann, and when given the facts changed to support for him.
I mostly am posting information, sorry if my method of participating doesn’t meet with the approval of yourself as well as those of your cohorts mentioned above.
Instead of spending time attacking me, why don’t the bunch of you get out on the ground and support your choices? Or at least post links here to threads you guys have started in order to support your candidates.
I didn’t respond to your first losded question, seems to be designed to take the discussion off subject.
Not biting or buying into your sideshow, Bob.
So you think you know better than the grass roots activists of Wisconsin who know all of these guys, who’ve spoken to them many times, who watched them closely in previous positions and know their records? Wow - Presumptuous much?What irony.
Those are the people I have been talking to for several days.
Where you get your information is beyond me.
You should get out and talk to some of these folks. They like Neumann.
****
Syncro,
Where do we get our information????!!!
We have repeatedly pointed out that:
1) the TEA Party Express DOES NOT speak for TEA Party groups in Wisconsin,
2) the national TEA Party Express group has made NO contacts to confer with local Wisconsin Tea Party Groups to determine whom Wisconsin conservatives would prefer to support,
3) no Wisconsin TEA Party groups support Neumann,
4) no Wisconsin TEA Party group leaders have endorsed Neumann individually.
This FACT has been buttressed by official press releases from MULTIPLE local Wisconsin TEA Party groups. These press releases detailing the above four points have been read verbatim and reported repeatedly over the last few days on both Charlie Sykes' morning conservative talk radio show on AM620 WTMJ and Mark Belling's afternoon conservative talk radio show on AM1130 WISN.
I have taken time along (with LouD, fieldmarshaldj and others) to provide candidate analysis and share facts & opinion as to why a presumed majority of Wisconsin FReepers and/or local Wisconsin TEA Partiers prefer candidates other than Neumann. Often, this has come in response to YOUR carpet bombing posts of TEA Party Express press releases and TPX fundraising pimps.
YOU, Syncro, are from California. Can you understand why a Wisconsin FReeper might be resentful of a California FReeper "telling Wisconsin how we should vote"?
YOU, Syncro, have been asked numerous times - politely at first - to explain why YOU and/or the TEA Party Express have chosen to support Neumann in a multi-candidate primary featuring 4 extremely well-qualified candidates who share mostly conservative backgrounds.
NO ONE IS ATTACKING YOU! Several Wisconsin FReepers have merely asked you to be respectful of local FReeper opinion - which largely does NOT support Neumann.
NO ONE HAS TOLD YOU TO STOP POSTING TEA PARTY EXPRESS MATERIAL -- at least not yet. Several Wisconsin FReepers have merely asked you to DISCUSS & EXPLAIN your reasoning for pushing Neumann - a 4-time electoral loser - as the GOP standard bearer. Last time I checked, FreeRepublic was a conservative political news and discussion site. So, let's discuss!
Instead, YOU refuse to discuss anything and engage in projections of personal attacks and "straw man" arguments. You claim to not to have time to engage in discussion, but you sure seem to have enough time to proactively & repeatedly post TEA Party Express press releases & fundraising pimps.
Look, I don't care if you are a friend/acquaintance of Jim Robinson. I don't care if you are a FR admin moderator (as alleged in a private FReepmail I received). I don't care if you are abusing those FR admin moderator powers to speciously remove posts by others (as alleged in a private FReepmail I received).
The only thing you have been asked is to share why YOU, Syncro - Mr. California FReeper and presumed national TEA Party Express flack - are pushing for Mark Neumann.
If the answer is that you are a paid/volunteer national TEA Party Express flack, please say so. If not, please explain why you think you know more about the 2012 Wisconsin US Senate primary candidates (and specifically Mark Neumann) than local Wisconsin government affairs professionals and local conservative activists who have personally known Mark Neumann since 1992.
Again, the last time I checked, FreeRepublic was a conservative political news and discussion site. Why are you so afraid to discuss your political opinion?
I supported Neuman for Govenor and feel that I got to know him pretty well during the campaign, and even arranged for him to come speak at my employer. I’m very happy with the way the election turned out as Walker has done more for Wisconsin than I feel Neuman would/could have done in the same period of time.
While Neuman is a nice guy, family man, business man, etc., he’s lost four elections and isn’t going to win the Senate seat.
I recently attended a Thompson session at my employer, and came away entertained, but convinced that he was NOT the right guy to be our Senator. He does have liberal views and said some things that raised an eyebrow or three in the room. Then there was the “old person” gaffs. He was wearing a microphone and constantly had issues with it. Frankly, I was a bit surprised at how he came across...
- disorganized
- Adult Attention Deficit Disorder - “oh look, shinny object!”
- clumbsy
- all around nice guy! Someone you’d definitely like to have a beer with.
Folks loved him. He was practically a stand up comedian. But nice guy aside, he said somethings related to taxation and healthcare that concerned some folks, including me.
I haven’t heard Hovde in person, but I like what I’ve learned of him through research. He’s bright, young, good looking (according to my wife), and presents himself well. He’s interested in undoing everything obama.
Any of these guys would be better than Herb Kohl was, and certainly would be better than Tammy Baldwin. But sadly, Neuman is not going to make it, and while Thompson is popular and an all-around nice Wisconsin guy who rides a Harley, I think Hovde is the most electable guy that would be a long-term solution for our State and Country.
In an ideal world, I think Fitzgerald might be the best conservative choice of the 4 candidates. Unfortunately, Fitzy lacks both personal wealth and a broad enough base of support (money & voters) to win a statewide primary, much less a general election.
As such, I will be voting for Hovde. He's not a professional politician like the others, he's more conservative than Tommy or Neumann and can raise enough money (from himself, if necessary) to win a statewide race against Baldwin, Soros & the Unionistas.
Again, more false attributions and downright lies about what I have posted and what is going on in WI
I am on the ground here letting you know how many tea party conservatives and others not tea party people that support Mark Neumann and you still deny those facts.
So now you lie about me and attack me, and ping Jim Robinson?
How weak.
Are you trying to get posts removed like one of your cohorts did? I read one of the posts before it was removed, and it was un unwarrented lying attack on me.
Oh and no, I didn’t report it.
I’d rather the vicious misleading posts by you and the others that hate Neumann...and apparantly me too...stay up so readers can see how out of line those that don’t support Neuman ar
No wonder Neumann has positive supporters and not name callers and posters of lies like we can see on this thread.
I’ll answer your misleading long post later when I have time, right now I’m going back out to watch Neumann speak
because the enthusiastic applause is too distracting to continue posting.
How about you reporting what you are doing on the ground here, or do you not go outside much?
Syncro, all you do is make unwarranted attacks, accuse others of what you yourself are guilty of and act indignant when you’re called out and corrected on the facts. I’d also like to know why my posts were removed in this thread for daring to defend myself against YOU and your derangement. How come YOUR posts aren’t removed for personal attacks and falsehoods alleged against others ? Very curious.
OK, I'll bite. What did I lie about? What attribution has been false? You haven't posted any TEA Party press releases/fundraising pimps? I count several.
I am on the ground here letting you know how many tea party conservatives and others not tea party people that support Mark Neumann and you still deny those facts.
I haven't denied anything. Absolutely, there are individual Wisconsin conservatives who support Neumann. I think those individuals (a minority among both the GOP electorate and Wisconsin-based TEA party supporters) are being misled by the national TEA Party Express and are making a poor electoral choice. I have merely stated ad infinitum the fact that no Wisconsin-based TEA Party groups or Wisconsin-based TEA Party group leaders (acting as individuals) have endorsed Neumann - just the national group.
So now you lie about me and attack me, and ping Jim Robinson? How weak.
Again, no one has attacked you. Yep, I pinged Jim Robinson - just to make sure that there was some level of fairness to this thread. While I haven't seen any of the posts in this thread that were removed by the Admin Moderators, I have received private FReepmail that alleged the removal wasn't justified and speculated that you or a friendly FReeper acting as an Admin Moderator removed them or had them removed.
Are you trying to get posts removed like one of your cohorts did? I read one of the posts before it was removed, and it was un unwarrented lying attack on me.
Are you threatening me now?
I’d rather the vicious misleading posts by you and the others that hate Neumann...and apparantly me too...stay up so readers can see how out of line those that don’t support Neuman ar (sic)
Please tell me specifically what I have posted that has been misleading? And no, I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you - you seem unable to make any logical statements and express any conventional argument on behalf of Neumann's candidacy.
No wonder Neumann has positive supporters and not name callers and posters of lies like we can see on this thread.
Gee. You're the positive supporter? You now just called me a liar. I'll ask again - what have I lied about on this thread?
I’ll answer your misleading long post later when I have time, right now I’m going back out to watch Neumann speak because the enthusiastic applause is too distracting to continue posting.
Ah, nice. Guess what, pal? As a Californian, you can't vote for your new Wisconsin hero. I'll be voting for someone else. Thanks for visiting and spending money in our fine state, though.
How about you reporting what you are doing on the ground here, or do you not go outside much?
Ah, yet another insult. Sweet. I've got a suggestion for you, too - why don't you go back to California and do whatever it is you think you do "on the ground" there and leave Wisconsin politics to Wisconsin voters? If you ask me, California needs a lot more help than Wisconsin to elect GOP members to Congress.
You are perfectly welcome to return to Wisconsin to help campaign for Romney and other NATIONAL race.
When can I expect your thoughtful post explaining why you think Neumann is a better choice than the other 3 candidates AND why YOU and the out-of-state national TEA Party Express know Wisconsin politics better than Wisconsin FReepers?
Cordially,
Sideshow Bob
1. Mark Neumann was earnestly and repeatedly recruited by the state GOP to carry the party's banner (unopposed) and run for Senate in 2000, 2004, 2006 & 2010, but repeatedly said "No, I don't want to go to Washington DC."
No, wait...that's true.
2. Mark Neumann took stimulus money for green energy projects.
No, wait...that's true.
3. Mark Neumann was engaged in bogus "Green Construction" homebuilding (y'know, the type of construction where hypocritical guilty liberals buy jumbo-sized homes with expensive energy-conservation facets that will eventually recoup their costs after 20 years of projected conservation).
No, wait...that's true.
4. Mark Neumann was begged to NOT run for Governor in 2010 by the GOP leadership and nearly every conservative group in the state.
No, wait...that's true.
5. Local Milwaukee, Madison & Green Bay conservative talk radio hosts begged Neumann to drop his quixotic gubernatorial effort and switch to run a 2010 Senate campaign.
No, wait...that's true.
6. Mark Neumann ignored the January 2010 secured Walker endorsements by 98% of all Wisconsin state representatives and senators and engaged in a dishonorable smear tactic-filled GOP gubernatorial primary against Walker in 2010.
No, wait...that's true.
7. Mark Neumann - despite trailing 3-1 in polls and with the Wisconsin GOP readying itself to make an unprecedented convention endorsement (in a contested state race) for Walker - staged a phony skirmish at the convention and initially claimed that he had been roughed up and kicked out of the state party convention.
No, wait...that's true.
8. Mark Neumann publicly threatened to quit his 2010 gubernatorial primary race (Wisconsin law prohibits primary losers from running as an independent candidate in the general election) to run an independent centrist campaign to the LEFT of Scott Walker.
No, wait...that's true, too.
9. Mark Neumann sided with liberals on the issue of Citizens United and constitutioanlly protected free speech.
No, wait...that's true.
10. Mark Neumann is a 4-time elctoral loser in Wisconsin politics.
No, wait...that's true, too. (US Congress in 1992 & 1993, US Senate in 1998 and Wisconsin Gubernatorial Primary in 2010)
I guess I really should stop lying about Mark Neumann.
You haven’t talked to me. I’m calling bullshit, Syncro. Tell me who, exactly, you’ve “been talking to for several days.” Name names, either via private message, or right here. Otherwise, I’m saying that you’re full of it.
http://www.wispolitics.com/1006/080912RacineTEA.pdf
CONFUSION IN WI US SENATE RACE?
Racine, WI – There seems to be quite a bit of confusion happening in Wisconsin regarding the recent endorsement from a national TEA Party organization for a US Senate candidate. Although we respect the work that TEA Party Express has done in and around the country, every TEA group both nationally and in the state of WI, are not always all aligned with their complete platform or candidate choices.
In light of this fact, TPE may endorse Mark Neumann while the TEA movement of WI is split on their support of the three other candidates for a variety of reasons. All four fiscal conservative candidates running for office against Tammy Baldwin are much better suited to make the tough economic decisions we need versus the liberal alternative.
In a recent press release several members of the Racine TEA Party and a variety of state-wide leaders and activists supported Eric Hovde as individuals; being very clear not to claim they represent their respective groups in their personal endorsement.
While Racine TEA Party does not, and will not not speak for our leaderless movement, we would like to make it clear that neither does a national group out of California. If there are any undecided grassroots voters left in the state, they are able to look to their local TEA groups for information and guidance on the candidates.
Many Wisconsin based groups who have worked and fought tirelessly in our state over the years, know and understand the candidates running for our Wisconsin US Senate seat better than anyone. Regardless of the outcome of Tuesday’s election, we are confident whomever of the four wins the primary election will have combined support from us all.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10151003341287562&id=145168652561
Sheboygan Liberty Coalition
For Immediate Release
August 9, 2012
Contact: Oriannah Paul
info@sheboyganlibertycoalition.com
TEA Party Express does not represent
the TEA movement in Wisconsin
Issues are rising due to Tea Party Express’ decision to endorse Mark Neumann. They are promoting Mark Neumann as the TEA party candidate creating confusion for voters who are not familiar with this organization. Tea Party Express is an outside group with no representation in our state. They do not represent the views of Sheboygan Liberty or many other TEA groups in Wisconsin, nor did they consult with any of the local groups.
Oriannah Paul said, “Tea Party Express may endorse whoever they wish, but it should not be confused as an endorsement by the network of Wisconsin TEA groups. Many TEA Party groups in Wisconsin are structured under 501(c)4’s and by law cannot endorse candidates.”
Tea Party Express is spending thousands in ads and using their bus tour to wrongly promote Mark Neumann as the ‘TEA Party candidate’, essentially undermining the TEA movement in Wisconsin.
Many attempts to contact Tea Party Express were made by Sheboygan Liberty and other groups with no response by the organization or its leader, Amy Krammer. Their lack of response and their actions seems to indicate a disregard for the TEA Party groups and voters in Wisconsin.
http://files.meetup.com/1596798/WTPOTR%20Press%20Release%20-%208.10.12.pdf
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
We the People of the Republic Responds to “Tea Party Endorsement” in Wisconsin’s U.S. Senate Primary Race
Media Contact: Ross Brown (President)
wethepeopleoftherepublic@gmail.com
August 10, 2012
Following the Tea Party Express’ endorsement of candidate Mark Neumann in Wisconsin’s U.S. Senate primary race, We the People of the Republic (WTPOTR) wishes to clarify that the Tea Party Express speaks only for itself as an organization and not for the Tea Party movement as a whole.
While the Tea Party Express has not claimed to speak for the movement as a whole, such an assumption could easily –
and incorrectly – be made by those not familiar with the nature of the movement.
Broadly labeling an endorsement for a candidate from any Tea Party organization as the “Tea Party Endorsement” is to misunderstand the grassroots nature of the Tea Party movement itself. No structure exists within the Tea Party movement to allow for such a sweeping inference. Depending on the culture and legal structure of each sovereign group, individual Tea Party organizations may or may not choose
to endorse candidates running for political office, and any endorsements that are made may differ from group to group.
As a 501(c)4 organization, WTPOTR does not endorse candidates, but WTPOTR members (as individuals)
certainly possess opinions about candidates running for political office. No scientific polling has been completed among WTPOTR members, yet (based on anecdotal evidence)
it seems that WTPOTR members are split when it comes to their preferred choice for the Wisconsin U.S.
Senate primary. WTPOTR members have shared their individual opinions in support of Fitzgerald, Hovde, Neumann, and Thompson, meaning that all four GOP candidates could showcase examples of support they’ve received from individual Tea Partiers in Dane County.
While individual organizations like the Tea Party Express are free to endorse candidates of their choosing, no single candidate can accurately claim to possess the “Tea Party Endorsement” because the very concept itself is a false premise. WTPOTR issues this press release in order to clarify this point to the media and to our fellow Wisconsinites.
I’ve got similar press releases from Wasau, Oshkosh, Green Bay, etc, but I think you get the idea...
Presumably, you’ve heard of those places, Syncro. They are cities in Wisconsin, a state located in the upper midwest.
****
LouD,
Shame on you for lying about "what's happening on the ground." Those press releases are obvious fakes. And it appears that conservative talk radio in Wisconsin is involved in the conspiracy, too. They keep reading those fake press releases at least every half hour.[/sarc]
Thanks for posting and reporting on all of the Wisconsin TEA Party group press releases. After this absolute smackdown, do you think we'll ever see Syncro post on this issue again?
Wisconsin Endorsements for Mark Neumann
Current Politicians
Kurt W. Schuller, Wisconsin State Treasurer
Former Politicians
Jack Voight, former Wisconsin State Treasurer
Wisconsin Endorsements for Tommy Thompson
Current Politicians
J.B. Van Hollen, Wisconsin Attorney General
State Senator Rob Cowles (R-Green Bay)
State Senator Mike Ellis (R-Neenah)
State Senator Sheila Harsdorf (R-River Falls)
State Senator Luther Olsen (R-Ripon)
State Senator Jerry Petrowski (R-Marathon)
State Senator Dale Schultz (RINO-Richland Center)
State Rep. Joseph Knilans (R-Janesville)
State Rep. Evan Wynn (R-Whitewater)
Waukesha County District Attorney Brad Schimel
Waukesha County Sheriff Daniel Trawicki
Former Politicians
Mark Green, former U.S. Representative
Margaret Farrow, former Wisconsin Leiutenant Governor
John Gard, former Wisconsin Assembly Speaker
Jim Klauser, Former DOA Secretary Jim Klauser
Cathy Zeuske, former Wisconsin State Treasurer
Wisconsin Endorsements for Jeff Fitzgerald
Current Politicians
State Senator Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau)
State Rep. Joan Ballweg (R-Markesan)
State Rep. Paul Farrow (R-Pewaukee)
State Rep. Samantha Kerkman (R-Randall)
State Rep. Joel Kleefisch (R-Oconomowoc)
State Rep. Dan Knodl (R-Germantown)
State Rep. Bill Kramer (R-Waukesha)
State Rep. Dale Kooyenga (R-Brookfield)
State Rep. Mike Kuglitsch (R-New Berlin)
State Rep. Jim Ott (R-Mequon)
State Rep. Don Pridemore (R-Hartford)
State Rep. Scott Suder (R-Abbotsford)
State Rep. Robin Vos (R-Rochester)
State Rep. Mary Williams (R-Medford)
Wisconsin Endorsements for Eric Hovde
Current Politicians
State Senator Glenn Grothman (R-West Bend)
State Senator Frank Lasee (R-De Pere)
State Senator Leah Vukmir (R-Wauwatosa)
Observations:
Family Ties
State Rep. Paul Farrow endorses Jeff Fitzgerald, while his mother, former Leiutenant Governor Margaret Farrow, endorses Tommy Thompson.
- State Rep. Joel Kleefisch endorses Jeff Fitzgerald, while his wife, current Leiutenant Rebecca Kleefisch, has made no endorsement.
- Former Assembly Speaker John Gard & his wife Cathy Zeuske, former Wisconsin Treasury Secretary, both endorse Tommy Thompson.
- State Senator Scott Fitzgerald endorses his brother Jeff Fitzgerald.
One Sentence Snapshots
- Jeff Fitzgerald has endorsements from his Assembly leadership team.
- Tommy Thompson has endorsements from his former gubernatorial cabinet.
- Eric Hovde has endorsements from 3 of the most conservative Wisconsin Senate members.
- Mark Neumann has exactly ONE endorsement from a current Wisconsin politician - State Treasurer Kurt Schuller.
Under Family Ties, it should read: "...current Leiutenant Governor Rebecca Kleefisch.
But you deny any of that happened, so I understand.
Where you get your information is beyond me.That was a post to Loud, not you as in the "we" in your response.****
Syncro,
Where do we get our information????!!!
Unfortunately my post was misunderstood, as loud said I wasn't talking to him. Of course I wasn't, I was talking to tea partiers ON THE GROUND in WI.
I'll clear up that little exchange:
So you see, I have been talking to "the grass roots activists of Wisconsin who know all of these guys, who’ve spoken to them many times, who watched them closely in previous positions and know their records."So you think you know better than the grass roots activists of Wisconsin who know all of these guys, who’ve spoken to them many times, who watched them closely in previous positions and know their records? Wow - Presumptuous much?What irony.Those are the people I have been talking to for several days.
Where you get your information is beyond me.
You should get out and talk to some of these folks. They like Neumann.
I don't know better than they do, I just know that a good many of them support Neumann.
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