Posted on 08/18/2004 7:43:12 AM PDT by Stubborn
The Mass is the Mass.
Protestantism is a heresy, Y/N?
'Worship Space'.
If you had ever attended the pre V2 Mass, you could not say that.
...Outstanding point.
> 1. "subsists" instead of "is"
> 15. "subsists" instead of "is."
Thay depends what you mean by "subsists." *smirk*
The Tridentine Mass is the Mass; the Novus Ordo is the Mass.
>>I found your list to be ridiculous, especially your desire to call Protestants "heretics."<<
Absolutely, Sinkspur. Finally we agree! The correct term is "apostates," not heretics. tee-hee.
CANON I.--If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent
So? The Novus Ordo fits that description.
Uhmm.... I have no "desire" to call them that. The Church calls them that. I'm just rounding out the "positive" spin with the other side so we have a more "balanced" and "well-rounded" picture. :)
Well heck, even the Black Mass is a Mass, so why not have that, according to your argument?
>>Protestantism is a heresy, Y/N?<<
No, a heresy is a false doctrine, or a movement to promote such a doctrine, proclaimed as authentic Catholic teaching. An apostasy is the withdrawal from the Catholic faith. Protestant "converts" are apostate, not heretical.
In one sense, "heretic" has a worse connotation, because it suggests the undermining of the true faith, but in another sense "apostate" is worse because it suggests the removal of oneself from grace, as opposed to mere error.
At the time of the COuncil of Trent, Protestantism could be largely identified as apostasy. Today, most Protestants simply have never been Catholic, and that term is also unsuitable.
I believe the shift in tone towards Protestants between Trent and Vatican II does not represent a change in doctrine, but a change in the denotation of "Protestant." At Trent, a protestant was an apostate. This is no longer true.
Misa normativa is the Mass of the Latin rite--but with no Latin in it!!! How quaint...
A Black Mass is not approved by the Church.
Worship space is a good one. I also forgot "in imperfect communion" or "degrees of communion" with the Catholic Church, which is derived from canon law--however, I would not say this is Modernistic--just another "wordsmithing" wordchange to emphasize the "positive" rather than the "negative," both of which of course, are psychological, not theological, terms.
Yes, but the Eastern rites are not called "the Mass," but the Divine Liturgy, so let's try to be a little more ecumenical, huh?
What about "Eucharistic celebration"? Why are you calling it to the Mass?
And to add to your theological correct post (Aw, come on, let us have a little fun, would you?), most Protestants born into their sects are "material" heretics, rather than "formal" heretics--but those who avidly reject Catholic teaching and call it the "whore of Babylon" and "the anti-Christ" are more likely formal heretics and schismatics.
Ecumenical? The Eastern Rite is as much a part of the Catholic CHurch as the Latin Rite is.
"Eucharistic Celebration" is fine with me.
This is a rather silly thread, especially since the article above is written by a sedevacantist.
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