Bump
Posted on 06/15/2004 6:53:50 PM PDT by RnMomof7
Bump
I didn't finish this piece, but I've read a few of these Calvinist screeds and I just have to say that the more I read about Calvinism the less attractive I find it. What is your purpose in posting this stuff?
No one ever said that the gospel was easy to hear or ordained to tickle the ears of everyone . There are plenty of place where you can read an easy gospel. It just will not be posted by a Calvinist. So avoid us
From the article:
"We plead with our Reformed brothers and sisters..."
[One must assume that the writer is writing to people in the "Reformed" denominations.]
This, now, is their position:
[One must assume that he means the above described persons.]
Only the first three bullets could possibly be considered legitimate doctrinal positions of the persons set forth above. The final three bullets are conclusions which the writer has chosen to make, but which he attributes to the people he is castigating. The last two are particularly egregious:
On the other hand, the reason why the others are saved is not that God loved them, desired their salvation, and gave His Son to die for them (for He also loved those who perish, desired their salvation, and gave His Son for them), but that they, by their free will, chose to believe.
But, he saved the worst for last:
In conclusion, the damnation of the wicked is the defeat and disappointment of God, whereas the salvation of the believers is their own work.
Clearly, these "doctrinal position(s)" were made up, by the writer, and are not the actual doctrinal positions of any "Reformed" Christians.
If only the writer had read the article you posted yesterday, he would have known that this kind of attack was not appropriate. The following is a direct quote, from that article, with a minor modification: "[NON]-." 1) GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT:
You cannot expect [NON]-Calvinists to take you seriously if they can hardly identify themselves in what you write.
2) GIVE COMPLETE REFERENCES FOR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING: [NON]-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1152724/posts
Maybe you should send him a copy of the first article, and ask him to provide a source for the above "doctrinal positions," so we can see that someone actually believes them.
DG
p.s. The above is obviously (I hope) intended to be a sort of verbal irony. Although my point is serious, I hope that you, (and other defenders of Calvinism) will be able to see that the admonitions of yesterday's article apply not only to your opponents, but also to the defenders of Calvinism.
p.p.s. It is instructive that I, personally, tried to avoid this quagmire. If GeRPiLs had not used these tactics (and worse) against me, we could now be getting along, and building each other up, instead of trying to tear each other down.
My old pastor once gave exegesis of John 3:16 in a way I had never thought of. The "so loved" in this verse can also be read as "in this way". The point being that God had a particular and peculiar way with regard to the cross and the redemption there attained for us. When I read Isaiah 55 the words "My ways are not your ways neither are your thoughts my thoughts" seem to bear this out. This understanding more than explaining what the world means seems to shed more light on this strawman of potential universalism. The world obviously cannot mean all men unless scripture is not consistant with itself.
Interesting. So, that IS the objective-- to be avoided by non-Calvinists. Hmmmm.
pony
A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:
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"History teaches us that hyper-Calvinism is as much a threat to true Calvinism as Arminianism is. Virtually every revival of true Calvinism since the Puritan era has been hijacked, crippled, or ultimately killed by hyper-Calvinist influences. Modern Calvinists would do well to be on guard against the influence of these deadly trends."
Obviously, there are a lot of hyper-Calvinists amongst the GRPL.
As for John 2:2 and others - let's get something straight - all of creation groans under the weight of sin and waits for the redemption of the world. When Adam fell we died spiritually but the entrance of sin into God's creation was pervasive to all of creation.
Romans 8:19-21 - 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[9] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
The whole of creation most certainly benefits from Christ's death upon the cross - it is we as humans, however, that have been called to choose based upon our particular dispensation of free will. This is where my belief in election comes in and understands that all have rejected (including the elect). All were given the opportunity to reject - how else could they reject something that was not offered to them in the first place?
God's love indeed extends to all mankind.
What we need,when these calvinist articles are posted are inputs by those who understand the greek, aramaic and latin texts from which these verses including the passages of predistination have been translatied into English. When I read the surrounding contextual verses in John and the predistination passages as well, I don't see how hypercalvinists can justify what they are saying. So what does the greek actually say?
One can turn the article back on itself and say that what the Calvinists are actually saying about John 3:16 For God so loved the World(of the predestined elect) that he gave his only begotten son, that who-soever believeth in him(that is when those of the elect come to that time in his or her life as pre-detirmined by God) shall not perish(it was never in doubt any way!) but have eternal life!
The verse just can't be interpreted that way!
Agreed.
If you believe that God loves everyone without exception, then you must believe God's Word contradicts itself:
Psalm 5
4For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness,
Nor shall evil dwell with You.
5The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.
6You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;
The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
What is your purpose in posting this stuff?
Truth!
Clarification: I'm in agreement with this statement.
I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Frapster.
GRPL member #55.
I don't appreciate you stirring the pot - the scripture (and therefore God) speaks quite unfavorably about such behavior.
No, the objective isn't to avoid non-Calvinists. However, since you find God's Truth so distasteful to sugary sweet tastes, the Elect sister was simply advising you to save yourself some discomfort and seek easy believism and politically correct religion instead of the hard Truth.
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