signed: "223110 Signatures Total"

LOL

We must all remember that the characters and stories in most of the Bible are there for our benefit. They are models for us as followers of Christ. In any story throughout the Bible, there is some life application to us here and now. And there were many shadows, types and figures in the Old Testament which foretold the New Testament. It is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

Currently a 2,000 plus vote lead ... GO ROSSI!!! I heard however, that they still have like 46,000 ballots to count in King County ...

OK, let's try again, that link didn't work:

http://vote.wa.gov/general/statewide_results.aspx?o=7FR30bVZqpnn5rCqJv1pVg%3d%3d

Here's a link to the Secretary of State page to follow the results

well the real issue is that you have to understand that the monetary system of the day was very primitive, almost non-existent, so when someone was in debt to another, the only way for that man or family to repay the debt was to become a slave in part ... that why it was so rampant, now there was some slavery as we would understand it, bought and sold, but the slavery that the Bible is mainly talking about is from one person indebted to another ...

OK, you asked for it. Here are some Bible passages and some commentary to explain the reason that once saved always saved is incorrect ideaology:

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1 Timothy 1:5-7 - sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. Note: That clearly says some have strayed from sincere faith. The word for strayed here, I use the NKJV, is swerved in the KJV. It also means err, to deviate from, miss (the mark). So these people deviated from sincere faith. You must not do that. You must keep the faith!

1 Timothy 3:6 - not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Note: The word for novice also means newly planted, a new convert, neophyte (one who has recently become a Christian). So what this is saying is that a new convert can become puffed up with pride if they are put into the position of an elder at a church; then that pride makes them fall. The word for fall means to fall into, to fall among robbers, fall into one's power. So this is action of a real Christian who has been out of the devil's power, but then falls back into it because of puffed up pride. What it is that there is a possibility of falling into is the same condemnation (judgement, damnation) as the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 - Moreover he (the bishop, overseer, elder, officer of a church) must have a good testimony among those who are outside (the people who are lost), lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Note: The word for must also means it is necessary, there is need of, a necessity in reference to what is required to attain some end. So the bishop or elder better have a good testimony of how the Lord Jesus Christ set him free from sin, and not be puffed up with pride, or else the lost sinners could have him fall into the devil's trap.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Note: Paul sounds like he's really trying to get the point accross by stating "the Spirit expressly says." With this kind of language, we better pay attention. The word for giving heed also means to turn the mind to, give attention to, to apply one's self to, to devote thought and effort to. So don't give much attention to people who tell you that you can not lose your salvation. People who are devoted to teaching the OSAS false doctrine have definitely given heed to deceiving spirits. They paid attention to misleading, corrupted, deceiving spirits and now they may be departed from the faith. The word for depart also means to desert, to fall away, become faithless, to withdraw one's self from. Either way that you look at it they stop having faith. So be careful of deceiving spirits and keep the faith. Real faith that is, not one of an imposter.

1 Timothy 5:12 - Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. Note: The word for cast off also means despise, reject, bring to nothing, to do away with, to set aside, disregard, nullify, make void. Clearly, their faith is no good anymore, and they will be condemned at the last day. These people become spiritually dead. I suggest that you study the word of God hard to make sure that your life lines up with His word. I still do it often, and I will continue to do so. I love reading the bible and being taught the ways of God.

1 Timothy 5:15 - For some have already turned aside after Satan. Note: They no longer followed Christ. To come to Christ is not a one-time deal and it is all over with. You can turn aside after Satan just like these people did. Don't do it!

1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. Note: The word strayed in the KJV is erred. It also means seduce, to lead away from the truth to error. Surely, the love of money can seduce a person and make them lose faith that they once had. The word for from also means out of, off, of separation, of departing, of fleeing, of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union of fellowship of the two is destroyed. Clearly, this is strong proof that someone can destroy their salvation. I don't think money in and of itself is a problem if you are not selfish and helping people with it, but the love of money that makes one greedy is.

1 Timothy 6:20,21 - O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge -- by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Note: We see that what a person says can make them stray concerning the faith. The word Guard is keep in the KJV. It also means observe, beware, to guard a person (or thing) that he may remain safe, to keep from being snatched away, preserve safe and unimpaired, to guard from being lost or perishing. Clearly, this is something that we have to do. The Lord doesn't do it for us. When we are told to do something, it implies the possibility of us not doing it. The word for idle babblings also means empty discussion, discussion of vain and useless matters. The word for contradictions also means opposition, that which is opposed. The word for knowledge also means science, knowledge signified in general intelligence, understanding, the general knowledge of Christian religion, the deeper more perfect and enlarged knowledge of this religion esp. of things lawful and unlawful for Christians, moral wisdom such as seen in right living. So the "O.S.A.S." false doctrine, which opposes the knowledge of moral wisdom in God's word because it says you are eternally secure no matter what, definitely fits into being against this category and some "have strayed concerning the faith" because of that alone.

2 Timothy 2:15 - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Note: For Be diligent to present the KJV has Study to show. Study (Be diligent) has the meaning of to hasten, to exert one's self, endeavor, give diligence. It is something that we personally have to do. God does not force us to automatically do it nor does He do it for us. Approved also means accepted, pleasing. Rightly dividing also means to handle aright, to teach the truth directly and correctly. The word is the word of God, the moral precepts given by God. Truth also means the truth as taught in the Christian religion, respecting God and the execution of His purposes through Christ, and respecting the duties of man, opposing alike to the superstitions of the Gentiles and the inventions of the Jews, and the corrupt opinions and the precepts of the false teachers even among Christians. So definitely this Scriptures does not mean we are "Once Saved, Always Saved." We have personal duties that will make us be accepted and pleasing to God. If anyone teaches otherwise, then they are a false teacher with no truth of the matter and we should oppose them.

2 Timothy 2:17,18 - And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Note: That is why this is a big deal to teach correct doctrine because the false doctrine spreads and makes others to not know the truth and have their faith be overthrown. The word for overthrow also means overturn, destroy, subvert. Clearly this Scripture is saying that what people say and teach can destroy the faith of others. This is not any other thing that can separate us from the love of God. It is still the personal fault of the one who allows their faith to be overthrown. Then when that happens, Scripture implies here that they are in sin, so it's still that person's personal sin that causes the loss of salvation. I write this because of what the very next verse says. 2:19 - Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and "Let everyone who names the name of Christ (the Lord) depart from iniquity. You see, sin is the issue. A Christian who perseveres stays set free from sin (stays departed from iniquity). This Scripture here is the basis of Christianity. But the "O.S.A.S." doctrine says that you are always saved no matter what. But no place in Scripture does it imply that.

2 Timothy 3:14,15 - But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of... the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Note: The word for continue also means abide, remain, endure, not to depart. So this is saying not to depart from what we were taught with God's word that makes us know how to be saved. Salvation is not as easy as knowing your ABC's, like I've seen some people preach. A = admit you're a sinner, B = believe in Jesus, C = confess... Well it is not that easy. In Matthew 7:14, Jesus said, "...difficult is the way." The word for difficult also means narrow, press hard upon, a compessed way, contracted. That is not easy.

2 Timothy 4:3,4 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. Note: This is what has happened to some of the people who believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved." The word for endure also means suffer, bear with, forbear, to hold up, to sustain. The word for sound in sound doctrine also means of Christians whose opinions are free from any mixrure of error. So bear with the correct doctrine of Scripture and not man-made doctrine that's full of errors. The word for itching in itching ears means desirous of hearing something pleasant. Hearing that you are "Once Saved, Always Saved" is pleasant, but it is not the truth.

Hebrews 2:1-3 - Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord...? Note: The word for the more earnest also means more abundantly, more exceedingly, more in a greater degree. So you better be real sure that you believe and obey God's word. The word for heed also means beware, to turn the mind to, give attention to, to apply one's self to, to devote thought and effort to. This is pretty serious. The word of God better be real in your life by you being a real born again Christian set free from sin not letting your salvation slip away from you. The word for drift away in the KJV is slip. It also means lest the salvation which these things heard show us how to obtain - slip away from us. That surely proves "O.S.A.S." IS WRONG. The KJV adds recompence of in front of reward. The word also means payment of wages due. The word here means more like punishment instead of reward. The wages of sin is death. If the people who heard the message delivered through angels (Deut. 33:2 ; Acts 7:53 ; Gal. 3:19) were justly punished when they disobeyed the Law, how can believers expect to escape punishment when they neglect the even greater message delivered through the Son of God? That's what the question in Scripture means. I see this question given to make us think about it.

Hebrews 3:12,13 - Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Note: This flat out says that us brethren have to beware of departing from God. The Greek word for exhort also means beseech, comfort, to call to one's side, to admonish, to encourage, strengthen, to instruct, teach. That's what I'm trying to do with my web pages, to get you to not depart from God. If I don't, the word of God here implies that you might become unreasonably determined to have your own way with sin. The word for hardened also means to become obstinate or stuborn. To be obstinate means to be unreasonably determined to have one's own way, not yielding to reason or plea, stubborn. So don't do that, but listen to me urge you to believe and obey God's word.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Note: That also is conditional security of being in Christ. If we hold steadfast to the end implies that one can possibly not do it, and fall. You may be confident in Christ now, but the word if is a big word. It means that you could not have that partaking of Christ at the end. So be careful and hold on. The word for confidence also means that which has foundation, is firm, that which has actual existence, the substantial quality - nature of a person or thing, the steadfastness of mind, firm trust, assurance. So are you sure that you have actual existence of abiding in Christ and that you are set free from the bondage of sin? If you are not sure, then you have no firm trust nor assurance. If you are sure, then keep abiding in Christ steadfast to the end.

Hebrews 3:18 - 4:1 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. Note: The word for rest also means the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which He has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers after the toils and trials of life on earth are ended. So since it still remains for us to enter it, we should fear not getting there, because Scripture in this book, Hebrews, says brethren have the possibility of departing from God and not entering this rest. The word for come short also means lack, be behind, be in want, fail, be destitue, to come late or too tardily, to be left behind in the race and so fail to reach the goal, to fall short of the end, fail to become a partaker, fall back from, to suffer want, to be devoid of, to lack in excellence or worth. So clearly, this shows the possibility of not being good enough.

Hebrews 4:11 - Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Note: The word for be diligent is labour in the KJV. It also means to exert one's self, endeavour. This is making sure that you keep your salvation. Don't give me that "we're saved by grace, not by works," because this is not work of working the OT Law. The word for fall also means to fall under judgement, came under condemnation, to fall out, fall from i.e. shall perish or be lost, to fail of participating in, miss a share in. So exert yourself to obey God, because there is a possibility to miss out and perish. This is talking about being diligent by obedience to the word of God, because of what the verses that come after it state.

Hebrews 4:12,13 - For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, ... and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. Note: The word for discerner also means relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging. The word for intents also means mind, the act of thinking, consideration, meditation, a thought. So even our thoughts are judged by God's word. The word for heart also means the centre and seat of spiritual life, the soul or mind. This explains why heart is often used for soul or spirit. The word for eyes also means the eyes of the mind, the faculty of knowing. You see, God knows our thoughts and He judges them by His word; so we better not have a corrupt mind, but believe and obey God's word with it.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Note: The word for enlightened also means imbued (permeated) with saving knowledge. The word for tasted also means partook of, enjoyed, experienced. So that proves these people were real born-again Christians. The word for if here does NOT mean if. It means and, also, even, indeed, but. The NASB has the correct translation here: and then have fallen away The if is not justifiable. It makes it look like if you ever fall away then you can never get back. That is not true. and then have fallen away means that they are and still in the fallen away state. The Greek word for fall away means to deviate from the right path, turn aside, wander, to error, to fall away from the true faith. But one can get out of the fallen away state by no longer being deviated from the right path, and no longer not having faith, by turning back to God. Then God's goodness leads them to repentance (Romams 2:4). This Scripture clearly indicates that a person may become a partaker of the Holy Spirit, obviously a true born-again Christian, and yet fall away and be lost.

Hebrews 10:26 - For if we sin willfully (as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately, and from ignorance or from weakness) after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Note: The phrase there no longer remains means that they did once have the sacrifice for sins. So this is about former Christians. This next Scripture also proves it, because it shows the person was sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ. But it implies a worse punishment because of falling back into sin.

Hebrews 10:29 - Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified (note: this person was saved, see, he had been sanctified) a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Note: It's a much worse punishment for the backslider who does not repent. You will see that in 2 Peter 2:20,21. The word for thought worthy also means deserving. The word for trample... underfoot also means to treat with rudeness and insult, to spurn, treat with insulting neglect. So don't insult and neglect Christ, who set you free from the bondage of sin, by willfully sinning again; or else you will deserve to have a worse punishment.

Hebrews 10:38 - "Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him." Note: Be careful, one can draw back from faith. Here the word if means if. The word for draw back also means to withdraw one's self, of those who from timidity hesitate to avow what they believe.

YOU CAN SELL YOUR BIRTHRIGHT
Hebrews 12:15-17 - looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. Note: Here we see 2 cases of how a Christian can fall short of the grace of God. looking carefully also means beware. So beware, because you can suffer want of and fail to be a partaker of God's grace. The writer of Hebrews got the root of bitterness from Deut. 29:18-20.

Deut. 29:18-20 - so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, 'I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates of my heart' -- as though the drunkard could be included with the sober. The Lord would not spare him, for then the anger of the Lord and His jealousy would burn against that man, and every curse that is written in this book would settle on him, and the Lord would blot out his name from under heaven. Note: Here we see that the root of bitterness (root bearing bitterness) is the willfull turning away from God which might make one think it's OK to be a drunkard. The consequence of that is at the end there in verse 20.

Another way we see here in Heb. 12:16,17 of becoming apostate is to be like Esau when he sold his birthright. Salvation is compared to a birthright because we become born-again into God's family. If we sell our birthright like Esau did, just like it was for him, it will be impossible for us to recover if we stay in that state. Esau couldn't change his father's mind. Esau lost his inheritance, which included God's gracious promises, by despising it and caring more about the pleasure of food over it (Gen. 25:32-34). We must care more about the eternal inheritance in the life to come, more than we care about the pleasures of this life now, or else we can fall short of the grace of God (Hebrews 12:15) and God will blot us out. Hebrews was writen for Christian brethren. It's only impossible for us to recover if we don't repent while we have the chance. The verse at the bottom shows that we can get turned back to God.

James 1:14,15 - But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

James 5:19,20 - Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. Note: If the backslider does not get corrected, his soul will perish with spiritual death. That is not everlasting life. The word wanders also means to sever or fall away from the truth, to be led astray into error and sin. The word from also means of departing, of fleeing, of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed. Clearly, this is about brethren who are no longer saved. The word turns also means to cause to return, to bring back to the love and obedience of God. That's part of what I'm trying to do with this web page. The word save also means to preserve one who is in danger of destruction. The word death is the same one in 1:15 above and it also means with the implied idea of future misery in hell, the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell.

Excellent job ... took the Bible quotes right outta my, er, well not mouth, right outta my Bible. Those are the ones I was referring to.

Show them this while you're at it...

Jesus said he who perseveres to the end will be saved ... what does that tell you?

he can do whatver he wants, the senate judiciary committee chair did not win the EV and PV

No, I'm thinkin' if Hillary gets the DNC nod in 08, we need to put Condy Rice up there, and if she doesn't win, we'll play the race card!!!

does A Bush win have anything to do with his "condition"?

I couldn't resist:

how about Laurie Roth...hooo---ahhhh

Jesus said we'd be persecuted for his name sake, starting to get it now, eh?

yah what about the Redskins, the DJIA, etc.?

lol

no, i wasnt calling you an idiot ... sorry for the confusion, the turkey on the web site...that said Pres. is DESPISED, sorry for the confusion