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Posts by Kolokotronis

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  • Met Saba (Esber) on the Orthodox "Diaspora" (Orthodox Caucus)

    05/25/2016 12:45:33 PM PDT · 3 of 3
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    Excellent reflection on the problem. That the author is Antiochian comes as no surprise. They have been as an Archdiocese the most welcoming to non-Arab Orthodox and Xenoi converts.

    My parish was founded by a few Greek immigrant families, mine among them, a bit more than 100 years ago. Until about 30 years ago, the parish was almost all Greek. Not now. Today we are very “pan Orthodox”. Greeks make up about 40 percent of the parish. As an indication of how things have changed and how ethnically diverse we are, we now say the Our Father in 9 languages. It takes a little longer, but it demonstrates the universality of Orthodoxy and it’s reality in America. I think it’s GREAT!

    As for the “diaspora”, well, while my buddies and I all love our “old countries”, most of us speak the languages and have taught our children to know and love them, not a day goes by that we don’t thank God that we or our old people came here!

    I honestly think a framework can be set up whereby we can establish an American Orthodox Church. So long as it is lead by people with a solid Orthodox phronema, which knows no ethnicity, and that doesn’t develop overnight, we should be fine.

  • Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

    05/25/2016 4:21:15 AM PDT · 63 of 180
    Kolokotronis to Salvation

    “Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostases. As we have seen, those privileged to be united to God so as to become one spirit with Him - as St. Paul said, ‘He who cleaves to the Lord is one spirit with Him’ (I Cor. 6:17) - are not united to God with respect to His essence, since all theologians testify that with respect to His essence God suffers no participation.
    Moreover, the hypostatic union is fulfilled only in the case of the Logos, the God-man.

    Thus those privileged to attain union with God are united to Him with respect to His energy; and the ‘spirit’, according to which they who cleave to God are one with Him, is and is called the uncreated energy of the Holy Spirit, but not the essence of God....” St. Gregory Palamas (Topics of Natural and Theological Science no. 75, The Philokalia

  • The Russian Icon that Reveals the Mystery of the Trinity

    05/22/2016 5:31:09 AM PDT · 18 of 21
    Kolokotronis to Claud

    “And I beg to differ that the Rublev icon doesn’t depict the Father, at least that’s not what the article says:”

    The article also says that the 7th Ecumenical Council authorized “representations” of “God”, which it did not. The reason the Council authorized icons of Christ, Panagia, the saints, etc is because they all had (or assumed in the case of angels)a corporeal nature which God sanctified by assuming it Himself in the Son. The Father has not assumed a corporeal nature. Indeed, as the Fathers have taught us, while we share in the human nature of Christ, we cannot share in the divine nature of God.

    As for whether or not the Russian view is “binding” on the rest of The Church, well of course it isn’t and at least in the West, never has been. What is binding are the anathemas of the 7th Ecumenical Council which certainly apply to a very large segment of what passes for Christianity in the West.

  • The Russian Icon that Reveals the Mystery of the Trinity

    05/22/2016 3:48:52 AM PDT · 16 of 21
    Kolokotronis to Claud
    "What “heresy” would that be?" A fundamental denial of the truth that the Father is ΅Ο ΩΝ", the Being Which created beingness. The Rublev icon does not purport to depict the Father (or the Son or the Holy Spirit for that matter), rather it is a depiction of an ancient scriptural pre-figuring of the Trinity.
  • The Russian Icon that Reveals the Mystery of the Trinity

    05/21/2016 3:00:20 PM PDT · 10 of 21
    Kolokotronis to chajin

    !!!!!!!!

  • Prayers for the Dead

    05/21/2016 2:14:57 PM PDT · 2 of 2
    Kolokotronis to NRx; xzins; P-Marlowe

    This is fabulous! You keep posting comments like this and I’ll have to change my opinion of Fr. Freeman. Maybe he’s finally getting it!

  • The Russian Icon that Reveals the Mystery of the Trinity

    05/21/2016 2:09:45 PM PDT · 7 of 21
    Kolokotronis to NYer; NRx; xzins

    The 7th Ecumenical Council DID NOT proclaim that images of The Father could be made!

    Here is what the Council Fathers proclaimed:

    “We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor (timitiki proskynisis), but not of real worship (latreia), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature, ... which is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands.”

    The Russians are right! Depictions of the Father are heretical and absurd, no matter what my people have, in the past, done!

  • An army in Heaven (hospice nurse on deathbed accounts)

    05/20/2016 1:33:45 PM PDT · 6 of 51
    Kolokotronis to NYer

    Me too.

  • The Fire Squad Wall of the Church

    05/17/2016 3:07:27 PM PDT · 23 of 31
    Kolokotronis to annalex
    Вечная память
  • London’s East End ‘Like Baghdad’, As Cockney Culture Dies Out

    05/15/2016 10:01:13 AM PDT · 47 of 52
    Kolokotronis to To Hell With Poverty

    ” I’m hoping that their kids will like Americanism enough to break free but what do we offer today? Crap music, white guilt studies at school and nothing but sexual sin and murder on tv. Which, in essence, is the opposite of what this country is really about.”

    You know, the Mohammedans around here seem to be assimilating at a rapid pace, especially the girls. Once they graduate from high school they lose the burkhas and are off to college, most of them studying medicine, nursing, biology etc. The boys are showing great athletic prowess and are likewise off to some fine colleges on full boat athletic and academic scholarships. One of the local boys graduated from the university last year and is off to law school in the fall. He’s a good kid, a smart boy. His girlfriend, btw, is also a Mohammedan but lost the burkha about three years ago when she arrived at college. Something is attracting them...I’ll bet it’s freedom and opportunity.

  • London’s East End ‘Like Baghdad’, As Cockney Culture Dies Out

    05/15/2016 9:49:28 AM PDT · 46 of 52
    Kolokotronis to Trailerpark Badass

    “Your Greek immigrant grandfather, or at least his children, received instruction in the blessings of liberty and the promise of America.
    He wasn’t handed SNAP applications and a EITC as he came off the boat, and his children weren’t taught critical race theory and white privilege and American imperialism in school.”

    No, actually he was told, as a 13 year old shoe shine boy, “Move along Greek. Only white boys can shine shoes here.”

  • London’s East End ‘Like Baghdad’, As Cockney Culture Dies Out

    05/15/2016 5:50:52 AM PDT · 31 of 52
    Kolokotronis to kearnyirish2

    “Americans can’t many jobs because they can’t speak Spanish (to deal with the clientele), yet they are forced to fund the public schooling of the immigrants (whose parents often are either on the dole or working under the table).”

    When I was a little kid, I spoke Greek with my mother, English with my father and French when I went out to play. When I was in high school I got jobs at a local jewelry store. I had to speak French “to deal with the clientele”! No French, no job! I’ve used that French, complete with a strong Montrealaise accent, all over the world, even in an Indo Chinese jungle drinking blood soup with Hmong tribesmen. I should think Spanish could come in handy too. Of course we are funding ESL classes here too. But the overwhelming majority of the immigrants here are NOT on the dole or working under the table. In fact, the percentage of welfare use among the immigrants as a group is a fraction of what it is among our local home growns!

    As for food, well last night my oldest was eating “lobster poutine”. French Canadian food is one of the true joys of life! Even if the French is gone, the food is still here and now we get to eat Ethiopian sambussa with it!

    America is changing and what these latest immigrants are assimilating into isn’t and won’t be the America our Irish old people fought to assimilate into...for decades and decades, really 100 years, after they left in the Great Hunger. I haven’t got a problem with that. Flexible cultures survive and adapt. Rigid, tribal cultures like those in Europe eventually get conquered.

  • London’s East End ‘Like Baghdad’, As Cockney Culture Dies Out

    05/15/2016 5:08:20 AM PDT · 21 of 52
    Kolokotronis to Ultima

    It’s a shame you feel that way. My Greek immigrant grandfather volunteered to go fight the Huns in 1917 and carried German lead in him to the day he died he loved this country and the fact that he was an American citizen so much.

  • London’s East End ‘Like Baghdad’, As Cockney Culture Dies Out

    05/15/2016 4:16:09 AM PDT · 15 of 52
    Kolokotronis to kearnyirish2

    It has taken at least four generations for the French Canadians around here to lose both their French and their French accent. Virtually all the Irish are long gone off to the cemetery, the Irish parish is closed and the Irish bars are gone. The Greek cafes and tavernas were gone by the time I was in college and the Sons of Italy is now a “bible believing” Baptist church. The synagogue closed years ago. The latest wave of immigrants, virtually all Africans of both Christian and Mohammedan persuasion, are already assimilating and they’ve only been here less than 20 years. In fact the Catholics and Orthodox among them have given a boost to our local parishes. The protestant ones have given new life to some of the protestant parishes. Truth be told, these immigrants are keeping my town from turning into one big loaf of agnostic/atheistic Wonder Bread! The people are nice, they work very hard, much harder as a group than the local examples of the shallow end of the Founders’ gene pool, they add a splash of color (in more ways than one) and their food is great!

    Our American culture is seductive in a way no other is, even the Canadian and Australian ones. Anyone who has traveled around this world knows how dominant American culture is just about everywhere. When people come here nowadays, virtually all want to assimilate at least to some degree. If they don’t, their kids do and will.

    It’s not the same in Europe. I could move to, say, Germany and become a citizen. But I’d never be a German. A German, or an Ethiopian or a Syrian or a Laotian can move here, become a citizen, and they are Americans.

    I don’t see much hope for Europe frankly. They just aren’t culturally set up for immigration. We are.

  • Francis and the Deaconesses… aka Deaconettes

    05/13/2016 4:42:02 AM PDT · 24 of 29
    Kolokotronis to NYer; Tax-chick

    In the early Church, deaconesses were almost all widows or unmarried women “of an age”. They were not (and are not) ordained in the same sense that priests and male deacons are, rather they were “consecrated” somewhat like readers and altar boys are. Their role was very limited, mostly to ministering to women because cultural taboos of the time forbade priests and male from touching women. Some local Orthodox Churches today do have deaconesses, mostly the Slavic Churches, though Greece reinstituted the order in 2011. The women, always unmarried, serve so far as I know only in women’s monasteries, usually isolated ones at that. They can perform certain sacramental functions like anointing the sick nuns and giving communion which has already been consecrated to nuns. They also may have some administrative role under the gerondas. I have been told that in Russia some work in women’s hospitals, I assume in the same roles.

    There are very few of these deaconesses; none here in No. America, none in the ME, No. Africa or among the Ethiopians so far as I know.

    Given the mindset of the modern Latin Church and of the Western laity, I trust you folks will stay far, far away from this.

  • Finding a Place for Ancient Liturgy in the 21st Century Church

    05/08/2016 4:20:11 AM PDT · 17 of 18
    Kolokotronis to Salvation; chajin

    “Evidently you have not attended a Tridentine Mass. It far surpasses the Orthodox.”

    In the late 900s, Prince Vladimir of Kiev sent out some of his boyars to view and report back on the religious ceremonies of the Bulgarians (Mohammedan), the Germans (Latins) and the Greeks at Constantinople. Here is their report:

    “”When we journeyed among the Bulgars, we beheld how they worship in their temple, called a mosque, while they stand ungirt. The Bulgar bows, sits down, looks hither and thither like one possessed, and there is no happiness among them, but instead only sorrow and a dreadful stench. Their religion is not good.

    “Then we went among the Germans, and saw them performing many ceremonies in their temples; but we beheld no glory there.

    “Then we went to Greece, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendor or such beauty, and we are at a loss how to describe it. We only know that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty.”

    Same Divine Liturgy today as back in 900.

  • Living Martyr of Albania Again Honored by Pope Francis

    05/07/2016 2:40:01 PM PDT · 11 of 13
    Kolokotronis to Kolokotronis; NYer

    Bekka not below!

  • Living Martyr of Albania Again Honored by Pope Francis

    05/07/2016 2:38:42 PM PDT · 10 of 13
    Kolokotronis to NYer

    Afterwards, we are naturally, providing a reception with tons of food.

    God forgives me, but it’s even better than Greek food! Make sure there is plenty of Hezbollah wine from the Below valley!

  • German report: Bailout has saved banks, not Greece

    05/07/2016 2:15:44 PM PDT · 8 of 9
    Kolokotronis to Lorianne

    Why am I not surprised? Things are very bad down in Greece. That said, I am very proud of my cousins and what they have tried to do for the refugees from Syria!

  • Full Russian Orthodox Easter Service (Ecumenical)

    05/07/2016 2:01:59 PM PDT · 2 of 2
    Kolokotronis to NRx
    Христос воскрес!
  • Living Martyr of Albania Again Honored by Pope Francis

    05/07/2016 1:57:35 PM PDT · 7 of 13
    Kolokotronis to NYer

    AXIOS!

    I go to church with Albanians every Sunday. One of the fellows swam from Albania to Greece and was found on a beach more dead than alive by monks from a nearby monastery. American Christian have no idea how bad it is/was in other parts of the world.

  • Pray for Kate

    05/07/2016 3:21:43 AM PDT · 107 of 147
    Kolokotronis to annalex

    O Lord Almighty, the Healer of our souls and bodies, You Who put down and raise up, Who chastise and heal also; do You now, in Your great mercy, visit our sister Kate, who is sick. Stretch forth Your hand that is full of healing and health, and get him (her) up from her bed, and cure her of her illness. Put away from her the spirit of disease and of every malady, pain and fever to which she is bound; and if she has sins and transgressions, grant to her remission and forgiveness, in that You love mankind; yea, Lord my God, pity Your creation, through the compassions of Your Only-Begotten Son, together with Your All-Holy, Good and Life-creating Spirit, with Whom You are blessed, both now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

    O Lord our God, Who by word alone did heal all diseases, Who did cure the kinswoman of Peter, You Who chastise with pity and heal according to Your goodness; Who are able to put aside every malady and infirmity, do You Yourself, the same Lord, grant aid to this Your handmaiden Kate and cure her of every sickness of which she is grieved; lift her up from her bed of pain, and send down upon him (her) Your great mercy, and if it be Your Will, give to her health and a complete recovery; for You are the Physician of our souls and bodies, and to You do we send up Glory: to Father, and to Son, and to Holy Spirit, both now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen

  • Miracle in Chicago? Pilgrims flock to see Orthodox icon weeping drops of oil

    05/01/2016 1:56:04 PM PDT · 13 of 14
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    Wow indeed. Our God is a great God!

  • The Paschal homily of St John Chrysostomos (Archbishop of Constantinople)

    05/01/2016 4:54:07 AM PDT · 7 of 18
    Kolokotronis to Tax-chick

    Our Balkan Mountain brothers and sisters do have beautiful children, don’t they!

  • The Paschal homily of St John Chrysostomos (Archbishop of Constantinople)

    05/01/2016 4:18:18 AM PDT · 4 of 18
    Kolokotronis to Claud

    Truly He is Risen!

  • The Paschal homily of St John Chrysostomos (Archbishop of Constantinople)

    05/01/2016 4:07:16 AM PDT · 2 of 18
    Kolokotronis to Kolokotronis; Honorary Serb; NRx; xzins; lightman; NYer; Tax-chick

    And in Serbia (almost the mother country!):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd3t6sCygnE

  • The Paschal homily of St John Chrysostomos (Archbishop of Constantinople)

    05/01/2016 4:01:41 AM PDT · 1 of 18
    Kolokotronis
    This is the sermon heard in all Orthodox Churches across the world at midnight last evening. Χριστὸς ἀνέστη!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tKexc4wSM

  • 1st, 2nd & 3rd Stasis of the Lamentations for Great and Holy Friday

    04/29/2016 12:00:27 PM PDT · 5 of 7
    Kolokotronis to Honorary Serb

    Sublime! May his memory be eternal!

  • 1st, 2nd & 3rd Stasis of the Lamentations for Great and Holy Friday

    04/29/2016 8:25:47 AM PDT · 2 of 7
    Kolokotronis to Kolokotronis; lightman; xzins; NRx

    Here is the same hymn in the mother tongue:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NtMCPmwtYI

  • 1st, 2nd & 3rd Stasis of the Lamentations for Great and Holy Friday

    04/29/2016 8:14:51 AM PDT · 1 of 7
    Kolokotronis
  • On the Great and Holy Council - Fr Theodoros Zisis (part 4) (Eastern Orthodox Caucus)

    04/28/2016 3:09:54 PM PDT · 5 of 5
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    Excellent translation running along the bottom of the screen.

  • The Foot-Washing Rite for Great and Holy Thursday

    04/28/2016 2:57:54 PM PDT · 8 of 8
    Kolokotronis to albie

    The Patriarch and hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church look like Mohammedans to you? Was it the Rev. Billy Bob Jeff or his snake who told you that?

  • The Synaxarion for Great and Holy Thursday

    04/28/2016 2:51:04 PM PDT · 4 of 4
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    Much better. Kalo Pascha!

  • The Resurrection: A Belief That Matters

    04/24/2016 2:51:50 PM PDT · 7 of 10
    Kolokotronis to metmom

    He has lifted me to the Heavens; you He has put to flight; For the rest of time I share the throne, I am no longer subject to you. He took my body that He might make it new; He will make it immortal and cause it to share His throne. I shall reign with Him, for I have been resurrected with Him. No longer are you my master; but I rule over you. My pledge of surety is now on high, But you are trampled on below by those who cry, `Where, O Death, is your victory, or where your strength? God has destroyed your strength Through the Resurrection.’ St Romanos the Melodist - On The Resurrection III

  • Pope Francis Surprises Thousands of Teens in St. Peter’s Square (hears confessions)

    04/23/2016 12:11:44 PM PDT · 5 of 16
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    AXIOS!

  • Realism and Islam

    04/22/2016 2:30:42 PM PDT · 15 of 18
    Kolokotronis to infool7; livius
    Those of us fortunate enough to have
    Balkan/Levantine blood know all about the Mohammedan ideology of world domination. We spent and are spending centuries under the heel of Mohamedanism. The West thinks it knows everything. You understand nothing about Mohamedanism. On the one hand it certainly isn't like any other religious belief system, no matter what your ministers, priests and politicians tell you. On the other hand, Mohammedanism doesn't and hasn't perverted all Mohamedans into savage monsters. We Greeks, for example, can never forget that it was Syrian Mohamedans who took us and the Armenians in when the Turks launched their decades long genocide against us in the late 19th - early 20th centuries. That's why we are taking in Syrian and other Mohammedan refugees even today. Our philotomo and our Orthodox Christianity demand it. Yours should too.
  • Chalcedonian vs Non-Chalcedonian Orthodoxy (A somewhat meaty exchange)

    04/22/2016 1:18:08 PM PDT · 4 of 4
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    My initial reaction to the posted article was profoundly negative. Nevertheless, I read the comments of Soliman and Marinides’ response. I am glad I did and suggest to all that they read the linked responses.

    That said, my parish has had Armenian, Ethiopian, Coptic and Syrian Orthodox members for decades. Never once did lightening strike or the roof cave in when they presented themselves for Communion.

  • Realism and Islam

    04/21/2016 3:12:29 PM PDT · 10 of 18
    Kolokotronis to livius

    “Also, of course, Islam is an Arab superiority cult, and one of the driving forces behind it is actually the Arab conception of themselves as superior beings spreading their divinely ordained power.”

    Really? I attend the Divine Liturgy every Sunday with Middle Eastern and North African Orthodox Christians. We recite the Our Father in Arabic among other languages. Many of my very best friends are Arab Christians. They show no superiority complex. Perhaps you meant a Mohammedan superiority complex?

  • Realism and Islam

    04/21/2016 3:05:20 PM PDT · 9 of 18
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    “I can’t believe this man is a Jesuit!
    Axios!”

    I can! AXIOS indeed! This is spectacular!

  • Russia Bolsters Its Submarine Fleet, and Tensions With U.S. Rise

    04/21/2016 9:55:07 AM PDT · 17 of 17
    Kolokotronis to dfwgator

    :)

  • Russia Bolsters Its Submarine Fleet, and Tensions With U.S. Rise

    04/21/2016 5:48:06 AM PDT · 2 of 17
    Kolokotronis to sukhoi-30mki

    Ah, for the old days at the ASWAC!

  • Becoming Pure in Heart

    04/20/2016 2:44:33 PM PDT · 7 of 11
    Kolokotronis to metmom

    One of the reasons I chose the quote from +Symeon the New Theologian was this:

    “but without fire of the Spirit, everything he does will remain inactive and useless for his aim, for by itself what he does is powerless to cleanse the soul of its dirt and foulness.”

    Seems clear to me that you and +Symeon are saying, at base, the same thing. Theosis is from God, not from our works. Orthodoxy teaches that absent Christ’s Incarnation, Death and glorious Resurrection, we would be doomed to a futile eternity without God in the place of the dead.

  • Becoming Pure in Heart

    04/20/2016 1:48:11 PM PDT · 4 of 11
    Kolokotronis to metmom

    “’The pure of heart will see God,’ according to the Lord’s infallible word (Mt. 5:8), according to his capacity, receiving as much as his mind can sustain; yet the infinite and incomprehensible nature of the Godhead remains beyond all understanding. For ‘the magnificence of His glory,’ as the Prophet says (Ps. 144-5), has no end, and as we contemplate Him He remains ever the same, at the same distance above us. The Great David enjoyed in his heart those glorious elevations as he progressed from strength to strength; and yet he cried to God: Lord, ‘Thou art the most High,’ forever and ever (Ps. 82:19). And by this I think he means that in all the infinite eternity of centuries, the man who runs towards Thee constantly becomes greater as he rises higher, ever growing in proportion to his increase in grace. ‘Thou,’ indeed, ‘art the most High,’ abiding forever, and canst never seem smaller to those who approach Thee, for Thou art always to the same degree higher and loftier than th! e faculties of those who are rising. St. Gregory of Nyssa”

    and

    “As a blacksmith can do nothing without the help of fire, however skilled he may be in wielding his tools, so a man should do everything he can on his side to purify his heart, using virtues as tools for this purpose; but without fire of the Spirit, everything he does will remain inactive and useless for his aim, for by itself what he does is powerless to cleanse the soul of its dirt and foulness.” St. Simeon the New Theologian

  • Metropolitan Hilarion Compares Europe with the Atheistic Soviet Union

    04/19/2016 5:06:55 PM PDT · 7 of 8
    Kolokotronis to marshmallow

    AXIOS!

  • Memory Eternal! +Metropolitan Constantine (Papastephanou), 1924 – 2016

    04/19/2016 5:01:46 AM PDT · 8 of 8
    Kolokotronis to lightman

    May his memory be eternal!

  • ROCOR HOLY SYNOD on Pan-Orthodox Council Texts

    04/18/2016 3:41:00 PM PDT · 4 of 5
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    I’m surprised anyone cares one way or the other what ROCOR thinks about anything. Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God Orthodoxy has no future at all. Despite their status as a “semi autonomous” Church, their hierarchs aren’t taken seriously anywhere, nor are they welcome among the hierarchs of the Churches with whom they are in one form or another of communion.

    They ought to go back to making converts kneel on beans at all night vigils and stop pretending that they are Orthodox.

  • ROCOR HOLY SYNOD on Pan-Orthodox Council Texts

    04/18/2016 9:15:19 AM PDT · 2 of 5
    Kolokotronis to NRx

    Got to wonder who in Moscow wrote this for the ROCOR crowd.

  • A scriptural defense of the Perpetual virginity of Mary

    04/16/2016 4:19:24 PM PDT · 268 of 398
    Kolokotronis to ealgeone

    “Well, at least they don’t in Christianity.”

    They trumped the iconoclastic Mohammedan form of it and the heretical Arian and Nestorian versions until the protestant revolution and being rejuvenated by Westerners angry with Rome, sadly persist in the West to this day.

    Time to call it a night. I’ve enjoyed the discussion.

  • A scriptural defense of the Perpetual virginity of Mary

    04/16/2016 3:53:46 PM PDT · 264 of 398
    Kolokotronis to ealgeone
    "Elsie has a wide range of pictures with catholics kneeling before images of catholic mary."

    I'll bet she could find pictures of Orthodox bowing before icons of Panagia and kissing them too. I did it myself this morning. I'll likely do it before I go to bed.

    You know, protestantism's intellectual forebears, the Mohammedan inspired and encouraged iconoclasts of the 7th & 8th centuries forbade the veneration of icons, but the Fathers of the 7th Ecumenical Council (787 AD) took care of that. Their proclamation is beautiful, profound, in Greek but since you don't know Greek, here it is in English:

    ""We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor (τιμητικη, Προσκυνητής), but not of real worship (λατρεία), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature, ... which is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands."

  • A scriptural defense of the Perpetual virginity of Mary

    04/16/2016 3:40:52 PM PDT · 263 of 398
    Kolokotronis to ealgeone

    “So we take your word on this? Nope.”

    OK; that’s up to you.