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Posts by Hostage

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  • Bloomberg Plans a $50 Million Challenge to the N.R.A.

    04/15/2014 9:42:51 PM PDT · 42 of 49
    Hostage to re_tail20

    Bloomberg’s wealth comes mostly from Bloomberg terminals subscribed by Wall St type traders at $20,000 per year per terminal. That’s about six billion in revenue annually.

    Find a way to lure his subscribers away and Bloomberg crashes and burns.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/15/2014 7:17:44 AM PDT · 255 of 259
    Hostage to dfwgator

    This is the last post I have time for this morning.

    Prince Alwaleed would be one. He nearly had a coronary when he learned of decisions to develop the Bakken shale which has more than ten times the proven reserves of that of Saudi Arabia.

    There is also an interesting yet real connection between the frenzied wildcat oil activity in North America and the global currency reset planning. Each country is to have its currency based on liabilities and assets. Hence, development of North American in-the-ground assets dovetails in with maintaining the US Dollar as oil’s reserve currency.

    There exists a real financial war going on that is not public and is not well-articulated in the financial press who only report its effects and not its design or compulsion. Currencies are part of the war and oil is very much tied to it. The decisions to invest billions in frack drilling have upset the previous balance and have resulted in a game-changing movement.

    The USA always had and still has plenty of resources and ‘assets’ in the ground. Only now Americans are tapping into their reserves and it is causing the competition to soil their undergarments.

    Here’s a listing of public entities that control Obama regarding oil:

    1. Natural Resources Defense Council
    2. League of Conservation Voters
    5. Greenpeace USA

    And as I posted previously that I heard with my own ears a top manager of one of North America’s major logistic companies say that environmentalists told Obama that if he signs the presidential permit for Keystone they will ‘crucify’ him.

    And I will tell you one other non-published fact. First, note there are 16 transborder pipeline projects pending approval with a Presidential Permit. And many are under construction, nearly finished and one is finished. The one that is finished shipped oil to Regina Canada LAST TUESDAY for the first time from the Bakken in defiance of Obama and his environmentalist puppet-masters. That pipeline operator no longer gives a damn and is in civil disobedience mode. The oil is piped to Regina where the Enbridge system brings it back to the USA to Clearbrook, Superior and on.

    The defiance is designed to put Obama and the environmentalists in the hot seat. Enforcement would result in negative press for Obama and his enviro fascists, especially in this election year.

    I like what I see. And that’s coming from someone who deeply respects the rule of law.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/15/2014 6:43:58 AM PDT · 253 of 259
    Hostage to thackney

    No one said the term ‘fracking’ was for the entire industry. The term does encompass most drilling in shale formations.

    Like it or not the term has become general usage even for drillers in the Bakken.

    I am not going to wag a finger like you and other hard-headed purists on this thread in a ‘mark your territory’ activity like dogs and fire hydrants. It is easy to sense that the two or three detractors on this thread have no fracking experience.

    The term is fracking and it is now widely used in the field and in media. It’s also called ‘fracing’ without the k; look it up.

    Fracking in its current form is relatively new regardless of those who say it was used decades ago. The complete technology used today is highly evolved to what it was decades ago. Fracking technology today is the driver behind all the drilling in the shale. That fact is indisputable.

    Fracking as a term is used to generally describe the renaissance in American oil production. It has nothing to do with those that read the Oil & Gas Journal and pretend to be frack experts. I am not an expert and I don’t need to be. My company is one of many owners and dealmakers that axquire and move ‘frack oil’ to end-users. We also do the same for crude, LNG and refined product but our main business is water purification which is why we are in the Bakken in the first place. I am not going to tell other principals in my company to stop using the word ‘frack’ just because some yahoos on a conservative forum have a hard-on for their past life experience in the oil patch but who have no experience using frack tech.

    So sit back in your easy chair and real Oil & Gas and pretend you are still in the game. I sense you are far removed from it.

    This thread is about environmentalists using whatever means they can to shut down fracking. It’s not about thumping one’s chest crying “Look at me! Look at me! I know! I know!” and other unassorted bullshit.

    You can take it to the bank that environmentalists and foreign interests want to shutdown fracking wherever they can. That’s a fact.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/15/2014 5:59:42 AM PDT · 250 of 259
    Hostage to thackney

    Fracking is the adopted term. You are pissing in the wind trying to stop it.

  • Documents Related to Bundy Situation

    04/15/2014 5:55:46 AM PDT · 20 of 65
    Hostage to Ray76

    Thank you. This makes it very clear that the conflict is EPA driven and the results are in pitting Nevada developers against ranchers using a mitigation bank.

    The federal statutes need to be changed to allow for grazing as a means of wildfire mitigation.

    The analysis of the desert tortoise problem needs reexamination and solutions need to include the human element of cattle grazing or goat herding. Humans and their animal migration are part of the environment in every sense of all other creatures that have migrated and established themselves.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/15/2014 5:33:56 AM PDT · 248 of 259
    Hostage to Smokin' Joe

    Yeah sure Oil and Gas Journal is something I pick up now and then but it’s no substitute for having seen up close how drillers actually plan and operate.

    You’ve never worked a rig using frack tech. You’ve read about it but you’ve never worked it.

    But you certainly act like you own it.

    Have a nice ‘pretend’ life.

  • Obama warns Russia in tense call with Putin over Ukraine

    04/14/2014 9:36:24 PM PDT · 5 of 50
    Hostage to NormsRevenge

    “Obama warns Russia in tense call with Putin over Ukraine”

    Putin warns USA in tense call with Obama over Bunkerville.

  • Was Stopping Nevada’s Fracking Rush Behind the Bundy Showdown?

    04/14/2014 9:33:47 PM PDT · 8 of 12
    Hostage to lavaroise

    I am not merely speculating.

    I don’t know if the above is true but the above is not the only report of fracking related reasons for the Bundy fiasco.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/14/2014 9:31:47 PM PDT · 246 of 259
    Hostage to Smokin' Joe

    I do know the language. The game has changed, there is new terminology and new people. Just because you’ve been in the oil patch for some years does not confer ownership of words and phrases that people in the field use today. Do a quick internet search and you will see a good number of people using the term ‘fracking lease’ to describe an oil and gas lease where hydraulic fracturing is applied.

    The reason people are now using the terms ‘fracking lease’ is because it is different than a regular oil and gas lease because it utilizes chemicals that environmentalists say pollutes ground water. I know ground water is not polluted by current fracking standard drilling but I know for sure the return water is nasty as hell. I’ve seen it on site.

    I sense you’ve had oil and gas experience but no fracking experience, am I right? Yeah I’m right.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/14/2014 9:23:17 PM PDT · 245 of 259
    Hostage to thackney

    My involvement in fracking means my investment in oil and gas leases using contract drillers who use directional drilling and hydraulic fracturing. My involvement spans from the wellhead to terminal storage and exchange or transport. I call the entire activity ‘fracking’ as so many others do because without fracking the drilling would be a waste.

    Ok? Got it now?

    Please take your nitpicking to some other thread or forum.

  • Was Stopping Nevada’s Fracking Rush Behind the Bundy Showdown?

    04/14/2014 8:51:29 PM PDT · 3 of 12
    Hostage to 2ndDivisionVet

    Yes I believe fracking prohibition was a factor behind Obama’s decision to unleash the BLM dogs.

    Last week I heard directly a top manager of one of the USA’s biggest pipeline operators in the Bakken say that environmentalists told Obama that if he allowed Keystone to go forward that they would ‘crucify’ him. What they meant by that is anybody’s guess but one can speculate that it means to drop his protection from investigations, lawsuits, impeachment etc.

    The environmentalists in California are militant about fracking there. It’s not a stretch for them to look at having BLM close off huge sections of lands for a desert tortoise or some contrived pretext especially when such lands are available for oil and gas leases involving fracking.

    So yes it is not only plausible but actually probable.

  • Who will be held responsible for the BLM threatening to slaughter hundreds of innocent Americans?

    04/14/2014 8:33:58 PM PDT · 42 of 152
    Hostage to Jim Robinson
    You might expect a communist or fascist regime to do this, not the American government.

    One Freeper posted that they saw the Russian broadcast RT with a segment about the conflict in Nevada.

    Of course they had such a segment.

    It mirrors exactly what Putin's stooge Yanukovych did to innocent Ukrainian protestors who were shot in Kiev.

    But Obama backed the BLM down which was smart because what he and his BLM were preparing to do would have resulted in Putin having the upper hand over any European condemnation of Russian actions in Ukraine.

  • Send In Bill Clinton to Save the Democratic Midterm Campaign

    04/14/2014 7:20:04 PM PDT · 9 of 19
    Hostage to 2ndDivisionVet

    Bob Shrum, enough said.

  • CBO: Narrow Networks Lowered Premiums in 2014

    04/14/2014 6:27:36 PM PDT · 5 of 10
    Hostage to Nachum

    > “However, the plans being offered through the exchanges this year appear to have, in general, lower payment rates for providers, narrower networks of providers, and tighter management of their subscribers’ use of health care than employment-based plans do.”

    In other words, crappy healthcare with scarce doctors and coverage on paper but not in practice.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 7:24:10 AM PDT · 70 of 86
    Hostage to Marie

    Thank you for the info. Clarity is needed on the history and any case history.

    I also suggested that he file an injunction in court and post a smaller bond to show his good faith. This would show he respects the rule of law and that he backs his position with cash. If he wins in court he gets his bond back.

    But more importantly if he were to file today then likely the case would not be heard until a year out and would likely drag on for another year after the first hearing. So Bundy could run the clock out on Obama while possibly benefiting from a more conservative congress in the meantime (hopefully GOP conservatives control House and Senate starting January 2015).

    Your info makes it even more compelling that Bundy get this whole matter into federal court where everything can be examined, even Reid and his son’s complicity.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 4:30:16 AM PDT · 51 of 86
    Hostage to MarMema

    Amen to Michele but I believe BLM under Obama will never seek a solution that she is describing. Still it’s good to see such people working within the system to preserve rights.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 4:22:15 AM PDT · 46 of 86
    Hostage to MarMema

    Have the Bundy’s retained counsel and established a legal defense fund? If so, I am ready to contribute.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 4:21:25 AM PDT · 45 of 86
    Hostage to Gadsden1st

    I think they can ‘request’ one but I don’t think they have the authority to ‘order’ one.

    As I posted previously in this thread, this is Obama not the BLM. The BLM is merely Obama’s puppet.

  • Anti-Kremlin protest draws thousands in Moscow

    04/14/2014 4:17:08 AM PDT · 20 of 22
    Hostage to wetphoenix

    AP has a photo in the link. I think this could be true and I sense it is as I know a lot of Russians who remember Gorbachov and his lies regarding Chernobyl and other things.

    So it it’s true it could be a real good development for Europe where people are in a panic over seeing Putin’s A-Hole behavior come out in the open.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 3:58:41 AM PDT · 38 of 86
    Hostage to raybbr

    One thing I know for sure is that one can refile when circumstances change. The circumstances are that Harry Reid and his sons are implicated. Also the BLM claims they have federal orders which is not believable as it would be a federal marshal that would execute federal orders, not the BLM.

    It is true though that clarity is needed on the past case history.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 3:45:32 AM PDT · 34 of 86
    Hostage to raybbr

    He can post a smaller bond in federal court and file an injunction.

    A federal lawsuit won’t be heard for a year at least and by that time we may see conservative leaders in power over the House and the Senate. A review of BLM practices and policies could ensue and this whole fiasco could be put to bed.

    I agree with the poster that said if it were not for large numbers of people grouping around the Bundy family that they would have been torched like what happened at Waco. But the first round here was won by respectable Americans, the next confrontation may not go so well. Hence, the smart play is to get it into court until the pendulum completes its swing in the political arena to the conservative side.

    Filing in federal court is the smart play because it shows Bundy respects the rule of law. Americans by and large are supportive of that. Filing also shows Bundy and supporters are willing to put their money where their nouths and guns are.

    The desert turtle issue can be put to rest in federal court, The overreach in federal control can be laid bare and the exorbitant federal fees can be examined. Ties of Harry Reid and Chinese solar interests can be examined. All this can be done in court rather that the MSM.

    To my knowledge Obama does not control federal circuit courts except for the DC Circuit as a result of Reid’s nuclear appointments. So in my view Bundy should have the upper hand in his region but he must get on the offensive and not sit back and wait.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 3:30:59 AM PDT · 32 of 86
    Hostage to mabarker1

    > “The courts are stacked and the feds could care less.”

    I resent your implying I am unenlightened and a child.

    I would respect your view a lot more if you could back your statement above up a bit. But I sense you have no working experience in federal court. Only an attorney with substantial experience in federal court would know if a court case is futile.

    Federal judges are rotated within their circuit. I doubt Obama could tie one down.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 2:52:10 AM PDT · 25 of 86
    Hostage to wastoute

    Post #24.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 2:50:41 AM PDT · 24 of 86
    Hostage to mabarker1

    No, the smart play is to file for injunction against BLM and all federal agencies.

    After the lawsuit is filed, the court docket can be used to run out the clock on Obama.

  • Bundy Ranch Update

    04/14/2014 2:31:00 AM PDT · 21 of 86
    Hostage to MacMattico

    20,000 Bundy supporters giving $50 each would be enough to pay the demand for grazing fees and would take away the basis whether valid or not for this abominable action by Obama. And make no mistake it is Obama.

    But that’s too much to give Obama. There exists a lot less costly way forward.

    10.000 Bundy supporters giving $20 each would enable the Bundy family to post a bond in federal court and file for an injunction against BLM and all federal agencies until the case can be made that Bundy’s rights trump federal orders.

    The State of Nevada should be enjoined if they are not willing to join the Bundy’s.

    The other ranchers in Wyoming that have been put out of business through government overreach can also join the suit as well as ranchers in other states that are similarly affected.

    I believe Bundy has a strong case for wrongful action on the part of BLM and all in league or in supervisory capacity over BLM. The tazing itself is enough to sue for tens of millions. This federal action should never have seen the light of day. A court summons to Bundy was the action required, not a 3rd world showdown of force against respected citizenry.

  • 34 States Call for Constitutional Convention - and Possible Rewrite

    04/13/2014 5:26:30 PM PDT · 22 of 115
    Hostage to EveningStar

    Once again we see the scare tactic of a ‘runaway convention’.

    These ivy league academic scarecrows don’t realize that our US Constitution limits Article V activity to proposing and passing amendments, requiring 2/3s of states to propose and pass and 3/4s of states to ratify into the Constitution. That’s a very high bar.

    Yet Congress could do the same as the states and they could do it today. AND THE QUESTION IS .... who do we trust more? The ruling class in Congress or ourselves?

  • Feds: Safety concerns led to Nevada cow release

    04/13/2014 11:02:53 AM PDT · 103 of 111
    Hostage to Carry_Okie

    The Chinese have already pretty much stopped buying US treasuries. They are trying to dump the bonds they have.

    Most of the deficit is financed by digital money printed/created by the Federal Reserve to monetize debt bought by their member banks from the Treasury department. And those member banks are told they must buy treasuries if they want the negative rate financing.

    China is not so much needed anymore to finance the US government.

    But the idea of boycotting China would lead to hyperinflation in many consumer goods. Walmart especially would cringe in pain.

  • Feds: Safety concerns led to Nevada cow release

    04/13/2014 6:22:40 AM PDT · 53 of 111
    Hostage to tumblindice

    In late 2008 and coming into 2009 when all the bailouts were being handed out by Obama and the stimulus was in full swing, the media especially newspapers came with hands extended and palms up asking for a handout. At that moment the AP media which is mostly print media was for sale to the highest bidder and I believe the stimulus bought them somehow.

    To this day I know of no accurate accounting for stimulus dollars but one thing is for sure I have never seem the media so owned by one president as they are under Obama.

  • Tea Party Challenges Stumbling as Primaries Approach: Polls show incumbents maintaining big leads.

    04/12/2014 12:01:58 PM PDT · 14 of 29
    Hostage to SeekAndFind

    This clap trap writeup has not one new nugget of information since February. It’s a rehash of what has been reported before several times by outlets that side with the GOPe.

  • Representative Paul Ryan at Iowa Republican Dinner

    04/12/2014 6:13:20 AM PDT · 11 of 27
    Hostage to iowamark

    Paul Ryan is a lightweight mediocre bureaucrat creature who kisses up to the GOPe.

    He needs to go away.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/12/2014 5:40:44 AM PDT · 229 of 259
    Hostage to Smokin' Joe
    In Washington State? Give me a break.

    You are too quick to make judgements. Of course I am not fracking in Washington State. I am an allocation holder in Stanley, Berthold, Dickinson and Trenton ND. My involvement in fracking spans from Bakken wellhead to terminal and terminal transport to Washington state by rail or by pipe to the East Coast. I am working on getting Bakken crude to Cushing and my sales are throughout the USA where transport is economical.

    At this very minute I have an employee in Montana and North Dakota who is checking out a new pipe that just came online this past Wednesday. No I am not a pipeline operator or anything like that as I expect you to draw a conclusion based on incomplete considerations. I am merely a new shipper who has passed financial review for the new pipeline.

    My non-fracking business spans the globe. But fracking is starting seemingly everywhere.

    I didn't read the rest of your post because you are trigger happy. If you think I should read it, if there is anything you think worthwhile in it, let me know but start your reply off with an apology because I did not deserve what was dished out above.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/12/2014 12:09:41 AM PDT · 220 of 259
    Hostage to Smokin' Joe

    I am involved in the hydraulic fracturing industry or ‘fracking’. I know that fracking is an explosive technique to enhance oil production for a well head. I refer to ‘frack land’ as land that can be available for fracking leases:

    The above link references that fracking leases are behind the Bundy conflict. The link has a further link to the following map document:

    and claims that it “shows significant exploratory drilling being conducted in precisely the same area where the Bundy family has been running cattle since the 1870’s.”

    and further that

    “The “Gold Butte” area is indicated on the lower right corner of the document (see below), and it clearly shows numerous exploratory drilling operations have been conducted there.”

    and further again that:

    “What’s also clear is that oil has been found in nearby areas and possibly even within the Gold Butte area itself.”

    Now I know that no single person has a handle on all the fracking that’s going on in the USA nor does anyone know where all the pipelines are both new and old and also in construction. And this is for reasons of regional security and national security.

    So your assertion that only Wells NV is involved is a partial blinded view from all that is happening because in this industry people and officials hold a lot of information close to their vests.

    It appears also that another motivation behind the conflict are the interests of Harry Reid, his son Rory and the Chinese with their offer to install a 5-billion dollar solar plant facility on the land that the Bundy cattle graze on.

    This is what I know and believe:

    1. The Saudis are losing sleep at night with the prospect of the Bakken development and its proven reserves of more than 10 times those of Saudi Arabia as well as other plays that are forecast to yield significant production. The Saudis will use their money and influence anywhere to shut down American fracking developments.

    2. Environmentalists have threatened to ‘crucify’ Obama if he grants a presidential permit for oil to ship via pipeline between the USA and Canada. This information comes from a top manager from one of the USA’s largest logistics companies. What ‘crucify’ means I can only guess that it may have to do with allowing investigations and impeachments to move ahead if Obama doesn’t comply with fascist environmentalist demands. And these so-called environmentalists are not really environmentalists per se, they are fascists like Soros who use the EPA as a tool to restrain the USA and to garner control for themselves.

    3. The global currency reset that is believed will be kicked off on July 1 of this year will have each nation’s currency based on its resource assets and its liabilities. Combine this information that China and Russia want to knock down the US Dollar as the reserve currency behind the global oil trade and we see a motive for taking US ‘Frack Lands’ off the table as a national asset for valuation of the US Dollar.

    4. Throw in the pitiful and ludicrous environmental support of the desert turtle and we see that there is plenty of motive and intent behind the Bundy conflict.

    5. Harry Reid and son appear to be implicated in a Chinese solar deal that is claiming that cattle grazing is damaging to their impact offsets.

    Put all the above together and it appears the motives behind this conflict stink.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 9:29:54 PM PDT · 213 of 259
    Hostage to Paladin2

    The point is environmental fascists control Obama.

    There has been reports that the land in conflict is frack land. Shutting down frack land helps OPEC and gives environmentalists power.

  • Did Michigan Just Trigger 'Constitutional Convention'? Bid Gains Steam

    04/11/2014 2:00:15 PM PDT · 19 of 97
    Hostage to RipSawyer

    Uh huh. We should only allow Congress to propose amendments right?


  • George Will: A Recourse to Budgetary Inaction

    04/11/2014 1:38:34 PM PDT · 10 of 28
    Hostage to Publius; JeepersFreepers

    Thank you for the ping.

    Someone please tell George Will that it is not a Constitutional Convention, it is a Convention of States (COS) for proposing amendments.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 1:17:09 PM PDT · 173 of 259
    Hostage to bert

    I’ve lost in lower court many times but more often than not I prevail in higher court.

    People who are not used to litigation often lose in their first brush with it because they do not know how to choose a competent and devoted lawyer or because the judge was biased or the venue was changed to favor the other party, etc.

    But as time marches on people eventually learn how to fight and win in the legal arena. Perhaps Bundy is making that transition. I hope so.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 1:10:10 PM PDT · 172 of 259
    Hostage to BuckeyeTexan

    The land was not purchased by the US government. See post #143.

    The Bundy family have a right to the ranch land they bought and to the grazing allowed on public land next to it.

    It’s no different than buying a farm with rights to upstream water supply.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 1:05:15 PM PDT · 171 of 259
    Hostage to DannyTN

    > “...that land becomes property of the government.”

    No, it does not become the property of the conqueror. It becomes a territory in terms of jurisdiction, of control.

    Read the treaty, it is clear that property of any kind would be respected along with rights.

    It does not matter if property at the time of the treaty was owned by Bundy. Bundy family bought property from someone and the rights to the property and the grazing rights were all covered under US law which also includes the treaty.

    If I buy property 100 years after a treaty, all the rights accorded the original property owners pass to me.

    What federal agencies like the BLM have done is to grab land, a ‘land grab’ which the EPA and BLM often does on a pretext of protecting some cross-eyed mouse or red-spotted lizard. But in my experience there is often some NWO environmentalist Soros-funded leftist ideologue behind such grabs. And such grabs seem to be much more frequent and egregious when democrats control the executive branch.

    On a related topic I just heard today that the only thing holding oil from crossing the border between the USA and Canada is a presidential permit note. I was told that environmentalists told Obama that if he oks that presidential permit they will crucify him.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 12:37:31 PM PDT · 167 of 259
    Hostage to BuckeyeTexan

    The Bundy bought their land from someone and everyone that bought land after the treaty bought from people that were protected under the treaty.

    Nevada administers and oversees the grazing rights. The BLM does not have a clear case here. My bet is the state could file for an injunction against BLM. Reports say the Nevada governor is angry with the feds. Congressional members from Nevada are also lining up against federal agencies.

    Your argument is not solid, far from it.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 11:35:15 AM PDT · 143 of 259
    Hostage to DannyTN

    They paid money for the settlement of all claims, eviction and boundary adjustments, not for land. See the actual treaty articles in Post #115 and Post #142.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 11:30:50 AM PDT · 142 of 259
    Hostage to Scoutmaster
    Your own post proves Bundy's point. It is Nevada that administers rights of grazing. It is Nevada that protects property and rights that were guaranteed under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo of 1848 for the territory within its state.

    Here are the relevant articles of the treaty (and note that Mexican citizens became US citizens unless they chose otherwise and in which case they had to leave):


    Mexicans now established in territories previously belonging to Mexico, and which remain for the future within the limits of the United States, as defined by the present treaty, shall be free to continue where they now reside, or to remove at any time to the Mexican Republic, retaining the property which they possess in the said territories, or disposing thereof, and removing the proceeds wherever they please, without their being subjected, on this account, to any contribution, tax, or charge whatever.

    Those who shall prefer to remain in the said territories may either retain the title and rights of Mexican citizens, or acquire those of citizens of the United States. But they shall be under the obligation to make their election within one year from the date of the exchange of ratifications of this treaty; and those who shall remain in the said territories after the expiration of that year, without having declared their intention to retain the character of Mexicans, shall be considered to have elected to become citizens of the United States.

    In the said territories, property of every kind, now belonging to Mexicans not established there, shall be inviolably respected. The present owners, the heirs of these, and all Mexicans who may hereafter acquire said property by contract, shall enjoy with respect to it guarantees equally ample as if the same belonged to citizens of the United States.


    The Mexicans who, in the territories aforesaid, shall not preserve the character of citizens of the Mexican Republic, conformably with what is stipulated in the preceding article, shall be incorporated into the Union of the United States. and be admitted at the proper time (to be judged of by the Congress of the United States) to the enjoyment of all the rights of citizens of the United States, according to the principles of the Constitution; and in the mean time, shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty and property, and secured in the free exercise of their religion without; restriction.

    Our United States federal government did not purchase land from Mexico. Mexico was defeated and there was no obligation to pay them anything. However, our federal government in the interest of adjusting the border for jurisdictional control and to indemnify against any future lawsuits and to facilitate the Mexican government exit from the territories agreed to pledge $15 million in installments over time. It was never about purchasing land.

    It should also be noted that Mexicans before their revolution had a landed gentry who in turn owned 'Haciendas' that were larger than many US western states. The Treaty specifically points out that their land ownership will be respected. That means they continued to hold title until they sold.

    The land is jointly administered by BLM and the state of Nevada with Nevada holding states rights protections. Nevada has as a choice to haul the BLM into state or federal court and sue for damages. Bundy is hence armed with plenty of legal options in which to pursue damages against the BLM.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 11:01:07 AM PDT · 131 of 259
    Hostage to bert

    Yours is not a cogent argument before a court. The inhabitants had rights of water and grazing that the treaty recognized. Look at Articles VIII and IX of the treaty.

    I don’t think the feds can present a winning argument in court. It’s not a cakewalk for them by any means.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 10:44:14 AM PDT · 120 of 259
    Hostage to bert

    Look at post #115. The treaty extended ‘jurisdiction’ of US boundaries, not ownership. The treaty agreed to protect property and rights of inhabitants.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 10:39:48 AM PDT · 115 of 259
    Hostage to BuckeyeTexan
    The United States paid Mexico $15,000,000 "in consideration of the extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States" (see Article XII of the treaty) and agreed to pay American citizens debts owed to them by the Mexican government (see Article XV). Other provisions included protection of property and civil rights of Mexican nationals living within the new boundaries of the United States (see Articles VIII and IX), the promise of the United States to police its boundaries (see Article XI), and compulsory arbitration of future disputes between the two countries (see Article XXI).

    The phrase "extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States" means extension of its jurisdiction, not its ownership. The government does not 'own', it 'controls'. Its control is subject to the rights of citizens and inhabitants, otherwise there is no freedom.

    Here's the actual Article XII from the treaty:


    In consideration of the extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States, as defined in the fifth article of the present treaty, the Government of the United States engages to pay to that of the Mexican Republic the sum of fifteen millions of dollars.

    Immediately after the treaty shall have been duly ratified by the Government of the Mexican Republic, the sum of three millions of dollars shall be paid to the said Government by that of the United States, at the city of Mexico, in the gold or silver coin of Mexico The remaining twelve millions of dollars shall be paid at the same place, and in the same coin, in annual installments of three millions of dollars each, together with interest on the same at the rate of six per centum per annum. This interest shall begin to run upon the whole sum of twelve millions from the day of the ratification of the present treaty by--the Mexican Government, and the first of the installments shall be paid at the expiration of one year from the same day. Together with each annual installment, as it falls due, the whole interest accruing on such installment from the beginning shall also be paid.

    Articles VIII and IX provide for protecting the 'property' and 'rights' of the inhabitants, ergo the Bundy family had grazing rights protected under the treaty. when Nevada was incorporated as a state, those grazing rights came under the state. The federal government cannot take them away unless by application of the 5th Amendment to the US Constitution.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 10:18:07 AM PDT · 101 of 259
    Hostage to BuckeyeTexan

    There is plenty of legal argument left surrounding the issue of ‘ownership’. The federal government can control territories but not own them. For example, Puerto Rico is a US Territory but it is not owned by the federal government.

    The district court erred if it ruled ‘ownership’ of Nevada to the federal government. It was never ownership, it was legal territorial jurisdiction; control and administration.

    Inhabitants of a region coming under federal jurisdiction never lose ‘ownership’ of the land they live on. Such inhabitants inherit rights under the US Constitution of which property is one.

    When a territory becomes a state, the federal rights of inhabitants come under state jurisdiction with federal approval. The Bundy family has rights granted by the state of Nevada and the federal government must respect those rights.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 10:03:43 AM PDT · 96 of 259
    Hostage to BuckeyeTexan

    The original agreement between Nevada (or any state) and the federal government bestows certain rights the state retains.

    The federal government cannot ‘own’ land in a territory that is not a state. It can ‘administer’ and claim legal or territorial jurisdiction over a territory; but never ownership. When a state is incorporated the land jurisdiction is made a negotiated part of the agreement between the state and the federal government.

    Your argument that the federal government ‘owned’ land in Nevada falls flat. The land was never bought from anyone and there was never any title to it.

    The ranchers grazing on that land for generations were never encroaching on it. The federal land grabs came later and many of the grabs were driven by special interests.

    We will see if the governor of Nevada decides to assert state rights and if he doesn’t, we will see what Congress does about it when the Nevada caucus gets revved up.

  • OIL FRACKING LEASES Reason For Bundy Ranch Fiasco in Nevada NOT 'Desert Tortoise!

    04/11/2014 9:42:19 AM PDT · 77 of 259
    Hostage to Kackikat

    Bundy family has grazing rights with the state. The state of Nevada has a governor that should be pushing back against the feds. Some congressional reps are getting behind Bundy.

    Land was always open for hundreds of years and only recently came under federal ‘administration’. The state of Nevada has granted grazing rights to ranchers for much longer and has sovereignty.

    My first impression when I heard about this was that the Bundy family were encroaching on federal land but that’s not the case.

  • Ted Cruz: Congress Should Impeach Eric Holder If He Takes No Action on IRS Targeting Scandal

    04/11/2014 5:51:29 AM PDT · 24 of 41
    Hostage to servo1969

    Love Ted but ...uh...Janet Reno?

    Somebody help me here.

  • Greta Van Susteren Backs Dem Candidate Into a Corner, Forces Him to Admit Big Lie

    04/11/2014 5:15:57 AM PDT · 26 of 46
    Hostage to MinuteGal

    Good post. I myself no longer have TV broadcasts in my home and haven’t had any for about 5 years.

    I used to watch Fox from its inception in 1996 and also enjoyed Tony Snow on Fox News Sunday.

    But here’s the thing; Fox News grabs the attention of a certain age demographic, the newbies to politics and the uninformed and unaware. If it weren’t for Fox News the electorate would be programmed and brainwashed by the likes of CNN and MSNBC. I would hate to think of the world without Fox News even though I don’t watch them anymore.

    So we should be grateful there is a Fox News. They are the most successful news and tabloid broadcast that exists today. I hope they put MSNBC and CNN out of business or at least force them to hire quality conservative hosts.

    But as you say Fox News can make some improvements and if any of their staff are reading this thread I would bet they are taking notes. That’s the difference.

  • Holder on Gohmert: What attorney general has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment?

    04/09/2014 11:16:20 AM PDT · 26 of 60
    Hostage to cotton1706

    John Mitchell.