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Posts by Elsie

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  • A Refresher on “Apostolic Succession”

    02/28/2015 1:12:20 PM PST · 29 of 45
    Elsie to Salvation
    Well; this is NOT the Catholic church; for NOTHING about Mary was mentioned!


     
     
     
    Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

    Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

    Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

    Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

    Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

    Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.

    Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

    Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

    Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

    Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

    Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.

  • A Refresher on “Apostolic Succession”

    02/28/2015 1:10:51 PM PST · 27 of 45
    Elsie to Salvation
    *It would be built on Simon Peter, Mt 16:18.

    Still will NOT give it up; will you!!

    Even when shown over and over and over what a lot of learned Catholics; WAY smarter than you; have said about it:

    As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1,

     

    Likewise I accept Sacred Scripture according to that sense which Holy mother Church held and holds, since it is her right to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy scriptures; nor will I ever receive and interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the fathers.http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/firstvc.htm

    Yet as the Dominican cardinal and Catholic theologian Yves Congar O.P. states,

    Unanimous patristic consent as a reliable locus theologicus is classical in Catholic theology; it has often been declared such by the magisterium and its value in scriptural interpretation has been especially stressed. Application of the principle is difficult, at least at a certain level. In regard to individual texts of Scripture total patristic consensus is rare...One example: the interpretation of Peter’s confession in Matthew 16:16-18. Except at Rome, this passage was not applied by the Fathers to the papal primacy; they worked out an exegesis at the level of their own ecclesiological thought, more anthropological and spiritual than juridical. — Yves M.-J. Congar, O.P., p. 71

    And Catholic archbishop Peter Richard Kenrick (1806-1896), while yet seeking to support Peter as the rock, stated that,

    “If we are bound to follow the majority of the fathers in this thing, then we are bound to hold for certain that by the rock should be understood the faith professed by Peter, not Peter professing the faith.” — Speech of archbishop Kenkick, p. 109; An inside view of the vatican council, edited by Leonard Woolsey Bacon.

    Your own CCC allows the interpretation that, “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), for some of the ancients (for what their opinion is worth) provided for this or other interpretations.

    • Ambrosiaster [who elsewhere upholds Peter as being the chief apostle to whom the Lord had entrusted the care of the Church, but not superior to Paul as an apostle except in time], Eph. 2:20:

    Wherefore the Lord says to Peter: 'Upon this rock I shall build my Church,' that is, upon this confession of the catholic faith I shall establish the faithful in life. — Ambrosiaster, Commentaries on Galatians—Philemon, Eph. 2:20; Gerald L. Bray, p. 42

    • Augustine, sermon:

    "Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer.John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327

    Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.

    Augustine, sermon:

    For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)

    Augustine, sermon:

    And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289

    Augustine, sermon:

    Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95

    Augustine, sermon:

    ...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193

    Augustine, Psalm LXI:

    Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)

    • Augustine, in “Retractions,”

    In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.

    Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

    'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

    Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

    You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

    • Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

    'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

    Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

    Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)

    Cyril of Alexandria:

    When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

    Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

    “For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

    “For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)

    Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.

  • A Refresher on “Apostolic Succession”

    02/28/2015 1:08:33 PM PST · 25 of 45
    Elsie to goodwithagun
    Don’t bring common sense onto these threads : )

    Pete; it's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.

  • A Refresher on “Apostolic Succession”

    02/28/2015 1:07:31 PM PST · 24 of 45
    Elsie to Scrambler Bob
    He was not.

    A philosopher; yes.


    Calvin: Isn’t it strange that evolution would give us a sense of humour? When you think about it, it’s weird that we have a physiological response to absurdity. We laugh at nonsense. We like it. We think it’s funny. Don’t you think it’s odd that we appreciate absurdity? Why would we develop that way? How does it benefit us?

    Hobbes: I suppose if we couldn’t laugh at things that don’t make sense, we couldn’t react to a lot of life.

    Calvin: (after a long pause) I can’t tell if that’s funny or really scary.

     
     
  • A Refresher on “Apostolic Succession”

    02/28/2015 12:52:51 PM PST · 21 of 45
    Elsie to Scrambler Bob

    He was not.

    A philosopher; yes.

  • The Foolishness Of The Cross

    02/28/2015 12:51:38 PM PST · 49 of 52
    Elsie to Salvation
    But he had to die first.

    Don't we ALL!

    (Except Mary; that is.)

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/28/2015 12:50:48 PM PST · 381 of 383
    Elsie to Abathar

    You’ve still got the beavers for excitement!

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/28/2015 12:49:45 PM PST · 380 of 383
    Elsie to chris37
    I hate those airplanes on a chain ride.

    They get you out at a 45° angle where your butt says you're straight and your eyes says you're not.

    Super vertigo city!

  • How We Got the Bible

    02/28/2015 12:46:56 PM PST · 254 of 254
    Elsie to CynicalBear
    Along the way, while washing his feet in the river Tigris, he was attacked by a fish which tried to swallow his foot.

    Maybe THIS one will taste better than that darned Jonah fella!

  • How We Got the Bible

    02/28/2015 12:26:33 PM PST · 253 of 254
    Elsie to NKP_Vet
    Go to any public library, look up the history of the Bible and see what it says about the Catholic Church. You can not not be that naive.

    And Rome copyrighted all that stuff; too!

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 12:25:13 PM PST · 409 of 421
    Elsie to CpnHook
    So it's an odd faith, indeed, that accepts on the one hand that the early church was guided in Truth so as to correctly canonize the NT, while on the other hand (and at at the same time) fundamentally misconstruing what those Scriptures say on a whole host of points.

    So it's an odd faith, indeed, that accepts on the one hand that the CATHOLIC church was guided in Truth so as to correctly THROW OUT 1/2 of the Apocrypha, while on the other hand (and at at the same time) fundamentally construing what those Scriptures say on a whole host of points.

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:49:50 AM PST · 405 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    What part of the word “theory” don’t you understand?

    What part of "Show me the Catholic take on it." don’t you understand?

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:48:58 AM PST · 404 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    If you reject the THEORY of Limbo, you still have to answer the question: No; I don't.

    YOU have to ANSWER "Where is LIMBO to be found in Catholic writings?"

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:47:50 AM PST · 403 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan

    Sorry; Dad...

  • The Foolishness Of The Cross

    02/28/2015 7:38:03 AM PST · 47 of 52
    Elsie to katana
  • The Foolishness Of The Cross

    02/28/2015 7:35:08 AM PST · 46 of 52
    Elsie to Star Traveler
    It’s too bad that this has also INFESTED Free Republic!

    Is it the thread jumpers that have you upset; or their FREEDOM to jump into threads that galls you?

  • The Foolishness Of The Cross

    02/28/2015 7:32:46 AM PST · 45 of 52
    Elsie to Salvation
    We are saved by the Cross and Jesus’ death on it.

    Oh?

    The bible tends to indicate something a wee bit different...



    1 Corinthians 15:12-14
    Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

  • There Is No Wisdom in Sin - Chapter 11

    02/28/2015 7:29:46 AM PST · 23 of 26
    Elsie to AnAmericanMother
    You may have been victims of that wrong-headed thinking.

    Couldn't tell ya.

    I DO know that most of us graduated.

    The Gummint did NOT subsidize sin the way it does these days.

  • There Is No Wisdom in Sin - Chapter 11

    02/28/2015 7:28:05 AM PST · 22 of 26
    Elsie to AnAmericanMother
    I guess I'm showing my age, but I thought everybody had to read Shakespeare in school

    Not in central Indiana.

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:25:00 AM PST · 398 of 421
    Elsie to verga


     


    'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,
    ' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

    'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

    'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:23:16 AM PST · 397 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    No one has ever offered me a reason (as opposed to a vehement, spittle-flecked assertion) why my mother, when she lived in Baltimore, cared about me and prayed for me, but now that she is in Heaven, doesn’t care about me, and doesn’t pray for me.

    I thought Catholics are NOT assured of salvation?

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:22:20 AM PST · 396 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    Unbaptized babies, or any unbaptized person who is not guilty of grave sin, would go to Limbo.

    Where is Limbo mentioned?

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:20:48 AM PST · 395 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    Maybe because you ask only “gotcha” questions rather than sincere questions.



     

    Deconstructing Linus: Portrait of a True Believing Pumpkinist as a Young Man

    What does the Great Pumpkin offer Linus? Why does Linus spend every Halloween in the pumpkin patch, waiting for the Great Pumpkin to appear? Is it about the toys?

    "Each year on Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises out of the pumpkin patch that he thinks is the most sincere and flies through the air with his pack of toys for all the good little children in the world."

    No. This is about sincerity, a subjective standard by any definition.

    I wonder if Linus blames himself every year for not picking the most sincere pumpkin patch for his vigil?

    I wonder if other Great Pumpkinists castigate Linus by asserting if he were more in tune with the Spirit of the Great Pumpkin, if he were more prayerful, if he read the Holy Writ of the Great Pumpkin with a greater sincerity, that he could indeed rise to the challenge and, via the Spirit, be lead to choose the most sincere pumpkin patch?

    I wonder how many years Linus will feel guilty for this failure and blame himself for receiving no answer no matter how sincere he believes himself to be?

    I wonder if Linus ever gets frustrated because there is no objective way to measure sincerity? And if he realizes there is no objective standard for such a thing, I wonder if it ever creeps into his mind that his annual mission is nothing more than mindless busywork?

    I wonder, does Linus ever has doubts?

    For the time being, however, Linus will put aside his doubts and, perhaps as a means of proving his sincerity, begins to proselyte among his friends for converts. Most shrug him off. But Sally, who has a crush on him, believes Linus and agrees to spend Halloween in Linus’ Pumpkin Patch.

    Linus then explains that by using positive language and positive thinking, they may be able to attract the Great Pumpkin to their Patch. He also cautions Sally that negative language and negative thinking will cause the Great Pumpkin to pass them by.

    There is no room for doubt when one is a Great Pumpkinist. One should never say if the Great Pumpkin comes but always when the Great Pumpkin comes. "One little slip like that, can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by!" It’s hard to imagine a benevolent icon such as the Great Pumpkin punishing TBPs (True Believing Pumkinists) for such a minor infraction, but there you have it.


    Sally: The Birth of an Ex-Pumpkinist

    Because Sally loves her “sweet baboo” Linus, she sets aside her own Halloween plans of trick-or-treating and a Halloween party in order to spend the evening in the Pumpkin Patch. She converts to Great Pumpkinism because she loves Linus. She respects his opinion. And she wants to make him happy and be supportive. And besides, if it’s really true, WOW! Wouldn’t that be fantastic?

    But in the end, the only Being that shows up in the Pumpkin Patch is Snoopy. Linus, believing Snoopy to be the Great Pumpkin, swoons into an ecstatic faint, happy in the knowledge that he has finally deciphered the Great Pumpkin’s standard for sincerity. But, alas, it is a misplaced hope, and when Linus regains consciousness, there is not only no Great Pumpkin there to reward him, there is one upset little girl.

    "I was robbed! I spent the whole night waiting for the Great Pumpkin when I could have been out for tricks or treats! Halloween is over and I missed it! You blockhead! You kept me up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin and all that came was a beagle!"

    "I didn't get a chance to go out for tricks or treats! And it was all your fault! I'll sue! What a fool I was. And I could have had candy apples and gum! And cookies and money and all sorts of things! But no, I had to listen to you! You blockhead. What a fool I was. Trick or treats come only once a year. And I missed it by sitting in a pumpkin patch with a blockhead. You owe me restitution!"

    Luckily for Sally, she only missed one Halloween. And though she is demanding restitution, because her participation was voluntary, she will never receive said restitution. She’ll simply have to accept the experience as one of life’s absurdities and move on.

    However, one can hope that this experience has made Sally a more skeptical person, so that the next time she is presented with such fantastic claims, she’ll perhaps be inclined to do her research before committing any time, money or emotion.

    After all, fantastic claims should be supported by fantastic evidence, right?

    The question now becomes, has this experience made Linus a skeptic? After yet again not having his Pumpkin Patch recognized as sincere and after having endangered his friendship with Sally, will he continue to believe?

    In spite of a complete and utter lack of evidence pointing to the existence of the Great Pumpkin, and a complete and utter lack of the Great Pumpkin’s Promise ever having been fulfilled, Linus is a True Believing Pumpkinist to the core. To even admit the possibility that he may be wrong would be to negate all those years of hard work and sincere belief. Linus simply cannot turn his back on his belief.

    So if Linus doesn't become an ex-Pumpkinist, what is his strategy? Well, he’s going to keep on trying, isn't he?

    "What do you mean, 'stupid'? Just wait until next year. I'll find a pumpkin patch, and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch and it'll be a sincere pumpkin patch, and the Great Pumpkin will come! Just you wait and see! I'll sit in that pumpkin patch, and I'll see the Great Pumpkin. Just wait until next year!"




  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 7:18:57 AM PST · 394 of 421
    Elsie to ealgeone
    Vegas says no answer!

    What happens in Vegas should STAY in Vegas.

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 6:56:38 AM PST · 392 of 421
    Elsie to Resettozero
    Every Catholic who responded to my post MISSED the point of my question and answered questions I did not ask.

    Maybe they were Mormons, posing as Catholics.



     
     
    Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted
     

    If the above link does NOT function; try THIS one.   Click on the second image.
     

     
     
    Timeline...    Subject...
     
    0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
    1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
    2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
    3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

     
     
     
     
     
  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 6:54:22 AM PST · 391 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    Limbo, a state of natural happiness, without the Beatific Vision. I.e., a place or state that is neither Heaven nor Hell.

    Is this something your chosen church teaches?

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 6:53:44 AM PST · 390 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    No one can be saved without Baptism.

    It's hard to misunderstand this.

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/28/2015 6:53:10 AM PST · 389 of 421
    Elsie to Arthur McGowan
    In that case, you have completely misunderstood everything I said.

    Possibly; but NOT everything the church based in Rome says.

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/28/2015 6:50:55 AM PST · 371 of 383
    Elsie to POWERSBOOTHEFAN
    I have not been on one in a very long time and I never will go on one again.

    Do not, repeat, NOT! ride the HULK at Universal!

    It was my first ride of the day and darn near my last one!

    My eyes kept telling me one thing and my inertial computer in my inner ears another!

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/28/2015 6:48:35 AM PST · 370 of 383
    Elsie to Roman_War_Criminal
    ...how else is anybody supposed to be?

    Proactive!

    The ONLY way is UP!

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/28/2015 6:47:32 AM PST · 369 of 383
    Elsie to Abathar
    Definition of a stalker: When you go out for walk together but only one of you knows it.
  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/28/2015 5:22:22 AM PST · 368 of 383
    Elsie to Abathar

    I can find Martinsville with GoogleEarth®

  • How We Got the Bible

    02/28/2015 5:19:25 AM PST · 249 of 254
    Elsie to CynicalBear

    Remember; he been taught this.

    He is satisfied with his teacher.

    He will NOT listen to any humans that say anything differently than his teachers.

    Let the Holy Spirit work.

    It won’t be US that awakens him in the night with doubts.

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/28/2015 5:16:34 AM PST · 114 of 117
    Elsie to verga
    . . .
  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/28/2015 5:10:43 AM PST · 113 of 117
    Elsie to boatbums
    Second, there were FIFTEEN extra-canonical books in the Septuagint - more than the seven Trent decided were "officially" canonical.

    OOOoops!

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/28/2015 5:09:48 AM PST · 112 of 117
    Elsie to centurion316
    Our religious institutions have become barriers to our Christian beliefs and adherence to Scripture.

    Shout it from the rooftops!

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/28/2015 5:07:49 AM PST · 111 of 117
    Elsie to L,TOWM; IWONDR; Normandy; teppe; WilliamRobert; FatherofFive

    Trinity all the way, ma’am. Father God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

    It's no WONDER that Mormons are confused over this!!



     

    Trinity:

     

    found in the Book of MORMON        -----------   rejected in the Doctrines and Covenants 

    Book of Mormon:

    Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

    ...and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

    ...doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

    ...praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

    ...power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son--And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, (Mosiah 15:3-5)

    ...of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them. (Ether 2:8)


    "Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning. I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and in me hath the Father glorified his name." (3 Nephi 9:15)


    "And again the Lord called others, and said unto them likewise; and he gave unto them power to baptize. And he said unto them: On this wise shall ye baptize; and there shall be no disputations among you. Verily I say unto you, that whoso repenteth of his sins through your words and desireth to be baptized in my name, on this wise shall ye baptize them--Behold, ye shall go down and stand in the water, and in my name shall ye baptize them. And now behold, these are the words which ye shall say, calling them by name, saying: Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. And then shall ye immerse them in the water, and come forth again out of the water. And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one...And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." (3 Nephi 11:22-27, 36)

    Doctrine and Covenants:

    According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest. (Section 121:32)

    And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God. And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them--Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths--then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. (Section 132:18-20)

    Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods. (Section 132:37)

     

     
  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/28/2015 5:02:09 AM PST · 110 of 117
    Elsie to Rashputin
    ...what was accepted as Scripture when Christ was preaching and teaching?

    Accepted by WHOM at this time?


    What was 'accepted' by JEWS that ROME tossed out?

  • There Is No Wisdom in Sin - Chapter 11

    02/27/2015 9:22:40 AM PST · 16 of 26
    Elsie to ravenwolf
  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/27/2015 9:21:15 AM PST · 321 of 421
    Elsie to edwinland

    Ah!

    The things one learns about from folks on FR!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maronite_Church

  • Faith Alone v. Forgiving Trespasses: How the Lord's Prayer Contradicts the Reformation

    02/27/2015 9:17:15 AM PST · 320 of 421
    Elsie to verga
    They are in the same chapter as Trinity, sinners prayer, and altar calls.

    Finally!

    Something C's and P's BOTH can agree on:

    Acts chapter 15

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/27/2015 9:14:36 AM PST · 91 of 117
    Elsie to RnMomof7
    ...The canon was not CLOSED until the council of TRENT ...you need to learn YOUR church history

    "Don't know care much about his-to-ree...




    Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]

    Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

    Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

    Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

    Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]

    Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]

    Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]

    Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

     

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/27/2015 9:05:30 AM PST · 356 of 383
    Elsie to donjuanluis07
    Sorry, but you have me passionate.

    Do NOT be sorry!

    We NEED passion!

    Now; let's find someone upon whom we can focus it!

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/27/2015 9:03:00 AM PST · 354 of 383
    Elsie to Roman_War_Criminal
    Looks like the GOP will lose again ...

    I just LOVE your optimism!

  • Obama to ban bullets by executive action, threatens top-selling AR-15 rifle

    02/27/2015 9:01:39 AM PST · 353 of 383
    Elsie to Abathar

    Well; if you’ve not lied; you’re close enough to me and have given enough data on your homepage that I can find the desk with the barrel in it!

  • How We Got the Bible

    02/27/2015 8:57:21 AM PST · 231 of 254
    Elsie to NKP_Vet
    Don’t the haters on here think it’s about time that credit it given where credit is due?

    You can’t change history anymore than I can.

    It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic.

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/27/2015 4:04:48 AM PST · 84 of 117
    Elsie to vladimir998
    I hope way day you come to know Christ. So far you apparently don’t know Him.

    Seems a bit judgmental...

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/27/2015 4:03:48 AM PST · 83 of 117
    Elsie to metmom; vladimir998
    “The Catholic Church has never taught we “earn” our salvation.

    It is true, however, that you must DO certain things and BELIEVE certain things to get it.

  • Is There A Purgatory?

    02/27/2015 4:01:21 AM PST · 82 of 117
    Elsie to L,TOWM
    ... if you are not opposed to taking a walk on the Pentecostal wild side.

    ;^)


    Are you a Trinity believing kind; or a Oneness Pentecostal?

  • There Is No Wisdom in Sin - Chapter 11

    02/27/2015 3:56:14 AM PST · 12 of 26
    Elsie to redleghunter

    indeed!