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Posts by Elsie

Brevity: Headers | « Text »
  • Does the Catholic Church Teach That Adam and Eve Are Myths?

    04/24/2015 12:48:28 PM PDT · 148 of 160
    Elsie to St_Thomas_Aquinas
    The Catholic Church can trace Her origin to Apostolic times. Lutheranism can be traced back to Luther. His church has no divine teaching authority.

    Mighty bold talk for a fella who has hitched his wagon to the RCC.

    So MANY of it's 'churches' seen in the bible were teaching massive error.

    Tell us ignorant Prots: Just HOW does that happen?

  • Does the Catholic Church Teach That Adam and Eve Are Myths?

    04/24/2015 12:46:26 PM PDT · 147 of 160
    Elsie to St_Thomas_Aquinas
    Which Protestant interprets the Bible infallibly?

    Who cares?


    "One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours." — Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)

    Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema. — Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/24/2015 12:43:35 PM PDT · 38 of 43
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    Since I have told you you're wrong, blatantly so infact, are you going to let your error stand? Since you've been told you're in error, if you don't correct it, I can only conclude you're trying to give false information on purpose.

    Ooooh!

    You grow BOLDER in your accusations!

    Perhaps YOU need to post the facts; if a hateful anti-MORMON bigot isn't going to do it.

    Don't you care if lurkers only see one side of the story?

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/24/2015 12:41:03 PM PDT · 37 of 43
    Elsie to elcid1970

    You left out...

    ...not THIS stuff again!

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/24/2015 12:40:18 PM PDT · 36 of 43
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    What you're saying is false. Do you care?

    Then; if a TRUE Mormon cared; they'd post the TRUTH.

    Going to?

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/24/2015 12:39:19 PM PDT · 35 of 43
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    296,000 converts last year

    And how many wised up and LEFT your wonderous Religious Organization?

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/24/2015 12:37:39 PM PDT · 925 of 943
    Elsie to af_vet_1981
    listen to the Pope when he says...

    EVERYTHING!!!!



    Oh; I'm sorry. A lot of what popes say or do fails to meet many of our FR Catholic's exacting standards.

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/24/2015 12:35:14 PM PDT · 923 of 943
    Elsie to Grateful2God
    Later on will come the ubiquitous post that we Catholics are damned to hell with all the non-Christians.

    G2G: you are confused...


    "One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours." — Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)

    Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema. — Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/24/2015 12:33:39 PM PDT · 922 of 943
    Elsie to Alex Murphy

    Second Step:

    Conjuring up the dead, as Saul with the Witch of Endor, is forbidden.

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/24/2015 12:32:51 PM PDT · 921 of 943
    Elsie to Grateful2God
    Please understand when it's the other way around, that we Catholics defend our beliefs against attack.

    Yes; we've ALL seen how effective your tactics are; too.

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/24/2015 12:31:51 PM PDT · 920 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor

    Hoosier was first...

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/24/2015 12:31:27 PM PDT · 919 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    Nobody at the GWT will be written in that book.

    Oh?

    Says who?

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/24/2015 12:28:49 PM PDT · 280 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper; Utah Binger

    John Ahmanson wasn’t introduced to the Church until 1850 in Denmark no less. He didn’t witness the founding of the Church.

    Coffee and Denmark!

    What a twofer!!

    http://blog.mrm.org/2012/02/mormonism%e2%80%99s-secret-history/

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/24/2015 12:25:09 PM PDT · 279 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    Some people just refuse to hear the truth...

    Truth is what comes out of a prophets mouth; right???


    "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

    and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

    and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

    Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/24/2015 12:23:58 PM PDT · 278 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    When someone resorts to ad hominem it usually means they have nothing to back up their position. It's weak...

    When someone resorts to ignoring data put before them, it usually means they have nothing to back up their position.

    It's typically a MORMON tactic...


    2:02


     
     
    Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted
     

    If the above link does NOT function; try THIS one.   Click on the second image.
     

     
     
    Timeline...    Subject...
     
    0:59           "Anti-Mormons..."
    1:16           "ATTACK the faith you have..."
    2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
    3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

     
     
     
     
     
  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/24/2015 12:21:46 PM PDT · 277 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    ... Dr. J.B. Buffington who preaches the false doctrine of Satan is in heaven should be ignored and left alone. He's a false teacher.

    Amazing that you can detect this!

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/24/2015 12:21:07 PM PDT · 276 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper; teppe; WilliamRobert; Normandy
    So you're basing your theory on the fact that John didn't give an explicit time line for every verse in Revelation?

    No problem!!!

    Joseph Smith diligently followed the instructions of his god and CORRECTED what Evil Men have CORRUPTED!!


    Remember... only ONE of these sets of verses are considered to be SCRIPTURE by Salt Lake City.


    Red italics indicate additions.
    Green indicates spelling differences.
    Blue indicates words removed.
    Larger font indicates completely different words used.
     
     
    JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION - REVELATION

    Revelation 1:1–8

    1 The Revelation of John, a servant of God, which was given unto him of Jesus Christ, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass, that he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John,

    2 Who bore record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    3 Blessed are they who read, and they who hear and understand the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, for the time of the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

    4 Now this is the testimony of John to the seven servants who are over the seven churches in Asia. Grace unto you, and peace from him who is, and who was, and who is to come; who hath sent forth his angel from before his throne, to testify unto those who are the seven servants over the seven churches.

    5 Therefore, I, John, the faithful witness, bear record of the things which were delivered me of the angel, and from Jesus Christ the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth.

    6 And unto him who loved us, be glory; who washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God, his Father. To him be glory and dominion, forever and ever. Amen.

    7 For behold, he cometh in the clouds with ten thousands of his saints in the kingdom, clothed with the glory of his Father. And every eye shall see him; and they who pierced him, and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    8 For he saith, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

    Revelation 2:26–27

    26 And to him who overcometh, and keepeth my commandments unto the end, will I give power over many kingdoms;

    27 And he shall rule them with the word of God; and they shall be in his hands as the vessels of clay in the hands of a potter; and he shall govern them by faith, with equity and justice, even as I received of my Father.

    Revelation 12:1–17

    1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.

    2 And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.

    4 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman which was delivered, ready to devour her child after it was born.

    5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.

    6 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;

    7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.

    8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.

    9 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ;

    10 For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    11 For they have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; for they loved not their own lives, but kept the testimony even unto death. Therefore, rejoice O heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

    12 And after these things I heard another voice saying, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, yea, and they who dwell upon the islands of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    13 For when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    14 Therefore, to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might flee into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    15 And the serpent casteth out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    16 And the earth helpeth the woman, and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth up the flood which the dragon casteth out of his mouth.

    17 Therefore, the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    KJV – REVELATION
    Revelation 1:1–8

    1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

    4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

     

    Revelation 2:26–27

    26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Revelation 12:1–17

    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    King James Version of the Holy Bible
    Public domain

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/24/2015 12:16:55 PM PDT · 275 of 281
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    The Great White Throne is strictly for those that missed the Grace, unbelievers, subject to the “second death,” 1000 years after we get our new bod.


    I've heard this said; yet the Book does not say that:


     
    Revelation 20:11-15
    "Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
     
     
     
     
     
  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/23/2015 3:36:25 PM PDT · 253 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    The devil is on the earth and has been from the beginning of man.

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/23/2015 3:34:38 PM PDT · 252 of 281
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    Rev 20 details why....that's how you'll be judged. Your works will witness to what you truly believed.

    If your works are unacceptable to the Lord and Joseph Smith!!, you're cast out.



     
     

    "He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
    - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
     
     
     
     
    "You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
    - Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
     
     
     
     
    "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
    - (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
    There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
    - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
     
     
     
     
    "I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
    - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
     
     
     
     
    "It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
    - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670


    They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
    He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
    He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
    As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
    Who has made this so?
    Have I?
    Have this people?
    Have the world?
    No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
    If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
    If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
    Can you pass without his inspection?
    No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
    In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
    They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
    They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
    Brigham Young,

    --JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

  • "My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

    04/23/2015 3:26:39 PM PDT · 251 of 281
    Elsie to MHGinTN
    Peace be with you, be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

    My mind is REALLY stubborn!

  • How Much Influence Does the LDS Church Have on the Legislature? Depends on Who You Ask

    04/23/2015 3:25:15 PM PDT · 37 of 37
    Elsie to Colofornian

    Tell us, Mormons: What's a heaven minus Heavenly Father?

  • How Much Influence Does the LDS Church Have on the Legislature? Depends on Who You Ask

    04/23/2015 3:24:26 PM PDT · 36 of 37
    Elsie to SZonian

    Amen!

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 3:23:07 PM PDT · 900 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    The GWT is a resurrection unto death.

    Darn that John for being so hazy in his writing!!

    Didn't he realize that DEATH and book of LIFE would get confused by some?


     
    Revelation 20:11-15
    "Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
     
     
     
  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 3:18:43 PM PDT · 899 of 943
    Elsie to DungeonMaster
     I was working out of the castle on the night watch when a call came in from the chief...
     
    Being on a night shift allowed me plenty of time to check stuff out while waiting for the automated equipment to finish a test.  Inspection had a DEC **** (something) that tested wiring harnesses for various equipment we were building.  I was assigned to hook them up and run the continuity/short tests.
     

    I was a mere trained (slightly) monkey that pushed the buttons in the right sequence.   As I knew nothing of big coumputers at the time, I was curious as to their inner workings.
     
    The lab had plenty of books, and I found a BASIC manual.
     
    After a little reading I figured out the 'basic' stuff needed and was soon writing little programs that ran on the testing computer.
     
    I found out that out MAINFRAME (in a special room all it's own; complete with the guys in white labs coats) ALSO RAN basic.
     
    We had dumb terminals thruout the plant that any one with a password could use to enter various types of data for record keeping.
     
    It would sit there with it's entry page, just waiting for someone to talk to it.
     
    If you typed in the wrong password, it would tell you so and go back to the entry page again.  (I suppose you could a bunch of them; hoping to find someone elses...)
     
    Did I mention the system wasn't too reliable?  I guess the big machines we had running throut the plant would cause glitches that made stuff go goofy, show a bunch of random characters on the screen and then locking up.
     
    Once you DID gain entry to the system; it was YOURS!  (Well a LOT of it I guess.)
    The * meant it was ready to run something; ANYTHING that you told it to do.
     
    Yes, BASIC was a word it would accept, and then you could write or run a BASIC program that it had stored.
     
     
    You know it took very little code to put up a FAKE entry screen?  
     
     
    The next person who came behind me found what LOOKED to be a normal configuration, but when they tryed to use it, it would store their password for me, and loop back for them to try again.
    Now it's easy to ASSUME that you typed it wrong; so you do it again; with the same results.
     
    But this time it jumped out of the loop, printed some random characters on the screen and then went into an infinite looping, causing a REAL hangup.
     
    The only way out was the same way as reseting the terminal: the escape key.
     
    This also was the way to get the REAL entry page back.
     
    I collected some doozy passwords, but never could figger out what to do with them since I already had access anyway.
     
     
    I guess I was phishing before the term was invented.
     
     
     
     
     
  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 2:51:16 PM PDT · 898 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    The first sentence of verse 5 is parenthetical,

    Now why didn't I know that???

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 2:50:35 PM PDT · 897 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    Never be a Wikipedophile!

    It wasn't wrong.

    I failed to read it.

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 2:49:50 PM PDT · 896 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor

    You are correct.

    I recalled poorly. Only the CITY of slc is from the cornerstone.

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/23/2015 2:26:20 PM PDT · 25 of 43
    Elsie to elcid1970; Utah Binger
    Coffee alert!


     
    THE
    DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
    OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
    SECTION 89
     
    Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
     
    1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
     
      1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
      2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
      3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
      4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
      5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
      6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
      7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
      8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
      9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
      10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
      11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
      12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
      13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
      14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
      15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
      16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
      17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
      18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
      19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
      20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
      21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.


  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/23/2015 2:25:14 PM PDT · 24 of 43
    Elsie to 2ndDivisionVet
    "A favorable outcome for marriage equality is a favorable outcome for multi-partner marriage, because the opposition cannot argue lack of precedent for legalizing marriage for other forms of non-traditional relationships," she said.

    So?

    There are still plenty of OTHER reasons!!

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/23/2015 2:20:48 PM PDT · 23 of 43
    Elsie to TontoKowalski
    Mormons will tell you it's "anti-Mormon" literature, but really it's just "truth."

    Most of my postings come from Mormon archives; except for the scathing mockery I aim their direction at times; but who gives a Shiz?

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/23/2015 2:19:19 PM PDT · 22 of 43
    Elsie to PROCON
    Did you burn your magic underwear? :-)

    After eating very spicey food; probably...

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/23/2015 2:18:00 PM PDT · 21 of 43
    Elsie to Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
    I would hold the Book of Mormon accountable to the same historical tests used to corroborate events which occurred in the Holy Bible.

    You mean like...



     
     
    The BIGGEST battle EVER recorded; and not ONE even teeny bit of evidence of it can be found!!
     
     


    The Book of Ether

    Chapter 15

    Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.

     And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.

     He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.

     He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.

     And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.

     And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.

     And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.

     And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.

     And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.

     And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.

     10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.

     11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

     12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.

     13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.

     14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.

     15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.

     16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.

     17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.

     18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.

     19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.

     20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.

     21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.

     22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.

     23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.

     24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.

     25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.

     26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.

     27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.

     28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.

     29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.

     30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.

     31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.

     32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.

     33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.

     34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.

     

    https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15

     

    And yet the BOOK says...


    Ether 14:22
    And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.

  • What challenges will the Mormon church face in its 3rd century?

    04/23/2015 2:13:48 PM PDT · 20 of 43
    Elsie to Colofornian
    But finding just the right balance to ensure a thriving — and distinctive — faith won't be easy.

    Mr. Millet:
     
    I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.
    I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from him
    that are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.
    That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,
     it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.
    We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to the
    Christian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.
    And so, and so in that sense — I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with — I've been invited
    to the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.
    And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.
    And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.
     
    The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.
     
    He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'
     
    And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'
     
    He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'
     
    And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.
     
    I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'
     
    But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.
    We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.
     
    And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.
    We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'
     
     
  • How Much Influence Does the LDS Church Have on the Legislature? Depends on Who You Ask

    04/23/2015 8:00:24 AM PDT · 32 of 37
    Elsie to DungeonMaster

    EVERY government is!

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:58:36 AM PDT · 879 of 943
    Elsie to DungeonMaster
    I was a mere repair technician for the Navy when I came across the development kit at a trade show. It was running a clock program.

    It was around $300 bucks IIRC. I then realized that you could SIMULATE logic circuits with this thing that would take many, many TTL packages to do the same job.

    So, I plunked down the cash, took it home, soldered it up, and punched in the clock code.

    "Great!" said the wife. "We now have a $300 dollar digital clock."

    It was amazing what could be written using only 256 bytes of RAM!

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:50:32 AM PDT · 878 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor

    But I’m sure you know there is a MAIN one: the place where the entire building is started from.

    The coordinate system for laying out land in Utah originates at the cornerstone of the Temple in SLC.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Salt_Lake_City

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:44:42 AM PDT · 876 of 943
    Elsie to rwa265
    Wouldn’t binary 511 be 111111111?

    I started hand assembling code on one of these back when you had to use coal oil to illuminate the laboratory.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6800


  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:37:32 AM PDT · 873 of 943
    Elsie to rwa265
    Elsie, I have stated in several posts that the phrase “mother of God” is not found in Scripture,

    You are indeed correct.

    But there are so many Catholics in these threads it's kinda hard to keep y'all separated.




    If they'd just QUIT using the Unbiblical 'Mother of GOD' every time they pick up their beads...

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:35:02 AM PDT · 872 of 943
    Elsie to BlueDragon
    But; since he was merely jabbering away as a mere mortal man; it mattereth not the content of his words.

    The church still rolls on...

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:33:53 AM PDT · 871 of 943
    Elsie to BlueDragon

    Ouch!

    This'll leave a mark!

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:32:34 AM PDT · 870 of 943
    Elsie to BlueDragon
    Speaking of boots and fence posts...


    Cowboy Poetry
    by Bill Jones
     
     
     

    Jake, the rancher, went one day
    to fix a distant fence.
    The wind was cold and gusty
    and the clouds rolled gray and dense.

    As he pounded the last staples in
    and gathered tools to go,
    The temperature had fallen,
    the wind and snow began to blow.

    When he finally reached his pickup,
    he felt a heavy heart.
    From the sound of that ignition,
    he knew it wouldn't start.

    So Jake did what most of us
    would do if we had been there.
    He humbly bowed his balding head
    and sent aloft a prayer.

    As he turned the key for the last time,
    he softly cursed his luck.
    They found him three days later,
    frozen stiff in that old truck.

    Now Jake had been around in life
    and done his share of roaming.
    But when he saw Heaven, he was shocked --
    it looked just like Wyoming!

    Of all the saints in Heaven,
    his favorite was St. Peter.
    (Now, this here line ain't needed
    but it helps with rhyme and meter)

    So they sat and talked a minute or two,
    or maybe it was three.
    Nobody was keeping' score --
    in Heaven time is free.

    "I've always heard," Jake said to Pete,
    "that God will answer prayer,
    But one time I asked for help,
    well, he just plain wasn't there."

    "Does God answer prayers of some,
    and ignore the prayers of others?
    That don't seem exactly square --
    I know all men are brothers."

    "Or does he randomly reply,
    without good rhyme or reason?
    Maybe, it's the time of day,
    the weather or the season."

    "Now I ain't trying to act smart,
    it's just the way I feel.
    And I was wondering', could you tell me --
    what the heck's the deal?!"

    Peter listened very patiently
    and when Jake was done,
    There were smiles of recognition,
    and he said, "So, you're the one!!"

    "That day your truck, it wouldn't start,
    and you sent your prayer a flying,
    You gave us all a real bad time,
    with hundreds of us trying."

    "A thousand angels rushed,
    to check the status of your file,
    But you know, Jake, we hadn't heard
    from you in quite a long while."

    "And though all prayers are answered,
    and God ain't got no quota,
    He didn't recognize your voice,
    and started a truck in Minnesota."
  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:28:08 AM PDT · 869 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
     
    Matthew 24,                    A little smaller still...
    1 Corinthians 15,             A little smaller still...
     
     
    1Thessalonians 4:16-18,

    16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord.

    17 Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.       (first?)

    Revelation 20:6               
     Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    Yeah; it's mentioned all right.   You've got to post the PREVIOUS verse to find it: The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
     
     
  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/23/2015 7:19:19 AM PDT · 868 of 943
    Elsie to Iscool

    ha ha!

  • How Much Influence Does the LDS Church Have on the Legislature? Depends on Who You Ask

    04/23/2015 7:17:39 AM PDT · 30 of 37
    Elsie to Utah Binger
    What was your question again?

    I love ya, Man!!!


    ;^)

  • BREAKING: Catholic Relief Services vice-president is in a gay ‘marriage’, promotes gay agenda

    04/23/2015 7:15:28 AM PDT · 85 of 85
    Elsie to daniel1212

    bump

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/22/2015 3:11:36 PM PDT · 817 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    In the gospels of Matthew and John, the first epistle to the Corinthians, and to the Thessalonians, and in the Revelation.

    Can you make these piles of hay a bit smaller for me?

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/22/2015 3:10:31 PM PDT · 814 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor

    I’m lucky to smell anything today: coughin’ and hackin’ and generally miserable physically.

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/22/2015 3:09:28 PM PDT · 813 of 943
    Elsie to editor-surveyor
    Binary 511 would be 111111110.

    There are 10 kinds of people in the world.

    Those that understand binary and those that don't.


    You appear to be among the latter.


    http://www.binaryhexconverter.com/binary-to-decimal-converter

  • Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

    04/22/2015 3:06:55 PM PDT · 811 of 943
    Elsie to Mrs. Don-o

    You have always been good to me; even when I poke y’all in the collective eye with a stick.