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Well friend I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I see an overwhelming support of the binity in scripture and I think the historical record is clear on the development of the trinity doctrine. Last word is your if you want it and thanks for the conversation.

It's best summed up in these verses:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

The unpardonable sin is rejecting the salvation one has through the holy spirit of the Lord.

Luk 12:10 "And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

Anyone who has gone so far as to reject the salvation of the Lord once it has been given will get to the point where they blaspheme against the same life giving spirit.

Thanks for the reply...sorry about not getting back to it sooner.

Scripture details a number of "covenants", or agreements, between man and God. For example:

Gen_9:17 And said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth."

This is a covenant that God made specifically with Noah, but extended it to all a flesh. His sign of the agreement is the rainbow. This covenant is still in effect.

When scripture speaks of the "old" covenant it's not talking about everything that is in the books of the old testament. It is talking specifically about the covenant that was struck at Mount Sinai, the heart of which was the ten commandments.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

The new covenant:

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

An important thing to realize is that the word translated "new" is more accurately "refreshed", or "renewed". It's the greek word (transliterated) "kainos". Contrast this with the "neos" which means recently born, or new.

So the "new" covenant is really renewed as the next verses show:

Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

What was wrong? "They" did not continue in his covenant. The covenant was broken by the people.

Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

The heart of the new and the old covenant is the same...the ten commandments. The difference is that they are no longer just words written on stone, but they are written on our hearts through the agency of the holy spirit.

The written "law" is our school master that defines sin. The laws, when written on hearts, are the written definition of Godly love toward our Lord and others.

It's already happening...some newsperson or a poltician on one of the sunday news show said that he had been brainwashed by his older brother about all that Muslim stuff....

Saw it yesterday...have to say it was one of the best movies I’ve seen in a while and ranks right up there with one of the best sci-fi movies ever.

I attend the Grand Rapids, Michigan congregation.

Normally services are at 2:30 PM on the sabbath. The 3rd sabbath of the month (today for example) we combine with our Kalamazoo congregation in a hall in Plainwell, Michigan.

Well here's Hebrews 8:8:

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

God doesn't say he's going to make a covenant with gentiles...but only with the house of Israel and house of Judah.

Stay with me though because you're right in a way:

Speaking to former gentiles Paul wrote:

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—
Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Notice verse 12...gentiles are by nature not part of the commonwealth of Israel. To Israel applies EVERYTHING. Israel is where Christ is, where the covenant are.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

The blood of Christ brings us INTO Israel and we then become part of the commonwealth....we CAN have Christ and can be part of the new covenant.

That's why the new covenant is only made with the houses of Israel and Judah and why gentiles can be included....it's because they become part of the house of Israel through belief in Christ.

Now all of this was just a really roundabout way to make the point that when scripture says:

Lev 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.

When the Lord, in scripture, speaks to the children of Israel we would do well to keep in mind that it very well may apply to us.

Can you post Hebrews 8:8 and tell me who the new covenant is made with?

There are congregations across the country. They are open to the general public.

If you're looking for a specific area click here

Do you have any scripture to back up that we are in the new covenant? I don't doubt you...I'm a scripture kind of guy and I'm not sure where you're coming from on it...

Yeah, I know...I've heard how awful I am...:-)

Are Christians under any type of covenant with God or Christ?

Cute...

Okay, we'll see if she agrees and then I'll respond to her separately. Is this also what you think when it comes to "Jewish law"?

That's the Abrahamic covenant.

The old covenant is that covenant struck with the children of Israel at Mount Sinai...sometimes also known as the Mosaic Covenant.

What do you mean by "Jewish law"?

Mat 11:29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Mat 11:30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Did Christ create holy days?

Lev 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.

Whose feasts are these?

Lev 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.

What does he tell his followers to do?

Lev 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.

We're supposed to set them apart, sanctify them...according to Jesus Christ.

That's a light burden and an easy yoke sister... :-)

I know...and I know I should not respond in kind and I feel like I'm failing in that.

I'm monotheistic and don't ascribe to work-based righteousness either. But hey, don't let that stop you...rend away. :-)

Unbelievable. Yes, make an outlandish charge and then say, "but yeah, they'll deny it.".

What if someone said about you "I hear you beat your wife...but if anyone asks him you'll deny it."?

"Recruit" is a term that suggests I'm trying to get people to attend my organization. It would be nice, but that's not the goal.

Why does this upset you so much? I'm not doing anything different from a Catholic, Protestant or the I-say-I'm-a-Christian-but-only-attack-others crowd.

Excuse me, but what have I said that I've made up "whole cloth"?

I've basically asked...why does Christian liberty allow one to worship on any day they desire, keep any kind of strange holiday they want, but EXCLUDES the one and only days that Jesus Christ created and kept himself? Doesn't "Christian" mean one who follows Christ?

God's holy days were created BEFORE the old covenant was struck. They are part of the old covenant (and new) but they exist outside of any covenant.

Besides, if you believe in the concept of Christian liberty why is it "bad" for me to observe holy days created by Jesus Christ that are IN the bible...yet it's not "bad" for you to observe days that were invented by man and are NOT in the bible?

That's not what scripture says:

Joh 12:20 Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast.

Greeks aren't Jews. Yet here they were, in biblical times, observing the very same days that Jesus created and kept.

Isa 56:6 "Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant—
Isa 56:7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

"Sons of foreigners" are not Jews. God says that if non-Jews observe his sabbaths...and his holy days ARE sabbaths...then his house shall be called a house of prayer for ALL nations...not just the jewish nation.

No, there the notion that the holy days of Jesus Christ are just for Jews is built strictly on mistaken tradition.

Besides WHY are they only for the Jews IF we have Christian liberty to worship on any days we want? Do you believe that?

If it were ONLY my perceived arrogance then these types of thread would quickly die.

I think it's something more.

I think both Protestants and Catholics absolutely HATE the idea Christians keeping the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Supposedly Christians have Christian liberty. Yet here you are too instead of just saying "God bless you for keeping SOME kind of holy day" you need to come on this thread, make an effort to read it, and instead of dealing with the topic turn around and blame me!

What is it about the holy days that are so offensive to you?

Thank you for the kind words Styro...appreciate that...watch out for incoming!

What part of Matthew 7:6 do you NOT understand? Are you unsure of what role I am assigning to you? :-)

Why boatbums...God bless you! That's about as accurate a statement i've heard about my beliefs...delivered in a respectful, mostly accurate way...seriously.

I wouldn't have used the word "only" to describe the holy spirit because I believe it's God's presence on earth. So when we're talking about God's spirit we're talking about God interacting with us on level we can understand.

I do believe the father and son are co-equal, but with different roles and responsibilities but at the same time always united in love, purpose, direction...united in any way you can think of.

I'm not sure about count-your-change. "Deny" the trinity though is a loaded term. I affirm the model of the Godhead as shown in scripture and as believed by the first Christians. Saying "Deny the trinity" leads some to believe that I deny the divinity of Christ (God forbid) or that I deny there is a holy spirit which of course I don't. I do though appreciate your adding the "as the historical Christian faith has defined it" because that's accurate.

take care...

We have a heart and mind...two...add that to your three and that's 5... :-)

We can do this all day...but the simple fact of the matter is that two is much more prevalent than three in man, God's highest creation.

Are you going to ignore the other examples regarding space, time and matter?

Can I? :-)

Space Height Width Depth

There are many more dimensions to reality than these 3...this can be proven mathematically.

Matter Solid Liquid Gas

There are at least 4, and some believe 5, states of matter. Look it up...it's true!

I’ll get to your post probably sometime Sunday or Monday...got a pretty full weekend and I’m not sure how much I’ll be on....ping me if I don’t reply by Monday in case I forget...thanks!

Matthew 7:6 my friend, Matthew 7:6. Responding to your false charges is like throwing pearls to a pig...

Yet another case of workplace violence...clearly he wanted to be IN the Boston Marathon and was rejected....thus the bomb!

He follows me to every thread I post or participate in. That's either rude or he has a man crush on me...not sure which.

I've engaged with him multiple times and patiently explained how he is wrong, but he's not content with that.

He is the perfect example of when to exercise this type of judgement:

Mat_7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Now if you have questions I'll be glad to answer them as best as I can in good faith.

I'm not playing "you hurt my feelings" really...I truly am amazed at the amount of vitriol, personal or not, that comes when someone dares to say that they would rather observe the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ, the ones he created and kept. And now you compared me to a liberal...the worst insult one could do on FreeRepublic! :-)

Thank you for your gentle and gracious tone. Can you give me examples of what you said above? thanks!

Thank you so much for the uplifting and gracious post! Have a fantastic sabbath!

Talk about bizarre!

I want the reader to observe the spitting, snarling, the insults, the invectives, hurled against me SIMPLY for wanting to observe the very same holy days that Jesus Christ himself observed. Amazing ain't it?

Great! You're okay with me keeping the holy days of Jesus and advocating that others do the same....appreciate your Christianity!

Wow you too? Do you hate the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ...serious question.

Again,why are you so angry cause people want to exercise our Christian liberty and keep the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ?

No, it's rude and vindictive.

This isn't talking about the Lord's holy days.

Amazing. You're willing to let anyone else observe any days they want as long as they do it to the Lord, but if I advocate actually keeping the days the Lord created and kept then somehow that's bad. Can you see the logical fallacy there?

Oh. I observe Passover because Christ, our Passover died for us. I observe the feast of unleavened bread because it pictures our journey out of sin, spiritual Egypt. Observe Pentecost because it pictures the formation of the church of God. You get the idea.

Who decided your days were better than the bible days?

Sigh...I’m not going away....so I wish you would please stop being so rude.

What does that have to do with it? These days are in the bible and belong to Jesus.

I’m not an anti-semite or Jew-hater in any form, but we Christians do not need to keep Jewish holy days.

I want to do it and I know that doing so benefits us spiritually. You've never done it so how come you get to be the expert?

Do you observe Christmas and Easter under the guise of Christian liberty? If so why do you wish to deny others that same liberty? Especially when these are the days our Lord and Savior observed?

For all the world I can't see why posting an article about keeping the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ engenders such negative vitriol. Can you explain it?

Great points...who was created in the image of God?

Man. We are made in the image of God. This applies also to the Godhead.

2 sexes, male and female.

We have 2 arms. 2 legs. 2 nostrils. 2 eyes. 2 brain halves. 2 lungs. 2 kidneys. 2 hands. 2 feet. 2 ankles. 2 femurs. 2 tibulas. 2 ears. Men have 2 testicles, women 2 ovaries. 2 breasts. You get the idea.

We are bi-symmetrical. The two parts of our body combine to make one just as the father and son make one in the Godhead.

When we marry two people become one.

Yes, we do reflect our maker and we do reflect the Godhead....our bodies scream it!

Were they...Amish?