Free Republic

***Is it your contention that Russia doesn’t have toilets, washing machines or tumble dryers?***

No. I was stating an observed fact. The men Putin was conscripting and sending to the Ukrainian front in the first year of the war were generally from the poorest and most miserable central/eastern provinces of Russia.

***Are they also spending what the one lone Poland is spending? Not at all. They are looking for free stuff without contributing anything.***

All the eastern European NATO members (excluding Hungary) are upping their defence spending. Sweden abolished military conscription in 2010 but has reintroduced it. Latvia abolished it in 2007, but reintroduced it on 1/1/2024 explicitly due to the Russian threat.

The German government has stated that it will double military spending and has begun building new munitions factories. French production of 155mm shells was 60,000 per year in 2022, now due to increase three-fold to 180,000.

Routine British production of 155mm shells (during peacetime) was 96,000 a year. An eight-fold increase in production of 155mm shells was ordered. Therefore, the UK will produce 768,000 155mm shells per year.

***Russia is a country which is attempting to resurrect its Christian heritage but is confronted all across its western perimeter by the armed forces of godless, secular humanist, western armies whose aim is to turn Russia into a Slavic version of Canada; a tame, woke, homosexual marriage-embracing, resource-rich, liberal sewer.***

Oh dear. You've really drunk the Kremlin's Kool Aid! Another American did that and went over there to help and look what just happened to him:

An American who won fame and infamy after joining the Russian armed forces and fighting in Ukraine has been found dead in Russian-controlled territory.

"American Z-blogger Russell Bentley (call sign Texas), who was kidnapped in the "DPR" and had been fighting in the ranks of pro-Russian militants since 2014, was raped and then killed by his fellow soldiers. The American's death was reported by his Russian wife.

Bentley was kidnapped 10 days ago by "unknown people in military uniforms" who mistook him for a NATO spy. After that, communication with him was lost. Some Russian war correspondents suggested that after the rape, one of the officers said that it was no longer possible to let the American go, so they decided to kill him."

The Russians are not defending traditional Russian values and Orthodox Christianity by attacking and subjugating Ukraine. They are just cynical lying hypocrites using that narrative as cover for their greed and sadism.

***Hey Zeeper, that was Germany after WW2.***

No. That was in 2022-2024. The standard of living in Russia outside of Moscow and Saint Petersburg is terrible for most people. Of course, Vlad and his ultra-rich Oligarch pals don’t care.

***Why worry about Russia conquering the EU, now, when the EU doesn't think there is any problem? If they did, they would have massively built their militaries. They didn't.***

You only need to see Poland's recent spending spree on military equipment to know they actually take the threat from Russia very seriously:

Poland Becomes a Defense Colossus - Poland has launched a huge and historic expansion of its military.

Also, I wonder why Sweden and Finland joined NATO in such a hurry if Russia is no threat.

But, of course, you'll ignore all that.

***He wanted NATO off his back and the usual old “..used to be OURS..” - territory dispute.. that’s all.***

Putin knows NATO is a DEFENSIVE military alliance and poses no threat of taking any offensive action against Russia. The real reason he wants to maintain a strong hold on Ukraine is because if they move westward and start to have a more western European style democracy, an improved economy and a much better standard of living, then his people will look at that and think “we want some of that too”. (Notice how keen Russian troops were to steal toilets, washing machines and tumble-dryers etc when they rolled into Ukrainian civilian areas?)

***I would rather that happen and deal with it down the line but for now spend our money here and now in America.***

Prevention is always cheaper and better than the cure. It’s your kind of thinking which allowed Nazi Germany to arm itself to the teeth and cause a war which killed over 65 million people.

***Cut and paste the the words which Sputnik fabricated.***

The Kremlin produces the propaganda and Sputnik, RT et al. publish it.

Josef Stalin would have called you a “useful idiot” for propagating Kremlin propaganda in the West and thus aiding Russia’s policy of aggression against Ukraine.

I wonder what it is that Sweden and Finland don’t know, but you do know, with regard to Russia’s end goal? With the USA out of the picture, do you honestly think Russia just stops at Ukraine, and you’re willing to take Putin’s word at face value? Were you born yesterday?

***Sorry, no one pays me to post here, and couldn’t pay enough, ever, to post PROPAGANDA defending Biden and Ukraine,***

Paranoid nonsense. I’ve been a member here for 22 years. I am a British patriot and a friend of the USA. I have worked and lived alongside Americans for years.

Trying to inject some sanity into these nutty upside-down threads about Ukraine might be a futile task, but as Mahatma Gandhi once said: “Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.”

***particularly given Ukraine’s non-stop TERRORISM during this war.***

Putin is a murdering gangster. Have you forgotten about Bucha, Irpin and Mariupol? Forgotten about Politkovskaya, Litvinenko and Nemtsov? Already forgotten about Navalny?

To claim that Ukraine is more brutal than Russia is laughable. If they had invaded Britain we would show this Russian vermin no mercy.

***PLENTY of proof, but if people are paid to discount it, then they WILL discount it.***

Russian propaganda is not proof.

Being involved in an atrocity like that would not benefit Ukraine at all, but if their involvement came out then it would strengthen the Russian people’s support for Putin’s aggressive actions against Ukraine. Involvement in such a bloody attack on a civilian target would also damage Ukraine’s relationship with its Western backers. Clearly, that is why Sputnik fabricated this story.

Why have you posted this garbage?

Sputnik is a well known Kremlin propaganda outfit funded by the Russian state media, their relationship with the truth is similar to Bill Clinton’s relationship with monogamy.

A Republican attacking a Democrat POTUS with their lies (over the latter’s support for Ukraine) in 2024 is like a Democrat attacking President Reagan in 1984 (for supporting Afghanistan) by citing an article published in Pravda or TASS (Soviet State propaganda outfits).

Ronald Reagan must be spinning in his grave knowing that Republicans are propagating/believing Russian state propaganda over their own President while an ally of the USA is engaged in a struggle for survival after being treacherously invaded by Russia.

***US Aid to Ukraine Amounts to $900 Per American Household, Economist Says***

And the USA’s national debt currently stands at $106,060 for each American citizen and has been going up every year for decades.

But don’t worry you’ll never have to actually repay it because you have the International Reserve Currency. Lucky you!

However, if China displaces you as the premier economic/military superpower the Renminbi will become the IRC, then you will have a problem.

Solution: don’t become all isolationist again, as saving money in the short-term will cost you a lot more money in the long-term.

The US government asked the Ukraine to stop attacking Russia’s oil production infrastructure in a shocking case of hypocritical double standards. (It did this because it doesn’t want the international oil price and hence the gasoline/diesel prices in the US to rise in an election year.) The US also forbids Ukraine from attacking Russian military/dual-use targets in Russia (with Western provided weapons) at a time when Russia is destroying civilian targets and causing major loss-of-life all over Ukraine with impunity.

Fossil fuel production is a strategic military asset and it’s Russia’s largest and most profitable industry that brings in most of their foreign income, which ultimately pays for their war machine. Therefore, it is a legitimate target for Ukraine to hit. Expecting Ukraine to fight with one hand tied behind its back when you have neglected to resupply them with much needed ammunition for 7 months is ridiculous.

*** Is it the obligation of the American taxpayer to defend Ukraine***

The USA made security guarantees in the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 to Ukraine in exchange for the latter giving up all its nuclear weapons. Yes, I know that idiot Clinton did it and it wasn’t put through Congress, but it seems rather unethical just to hang the Ukrainians out to dry (for want of munitions) after Russia treacherously invaded them.

***George Washington, in his farewell address, warned future generations not to get entangled in foreign alliances and specifically not to get involved in European wars.***

The world has changed a lot since then. We have these things called ICBMs, SLBMs and thermonuclear weapons. Maybe, you’ve heard of them?

The Russians have enough nuclear firepower to turn the continental USA into a smoking pile of ashes. Isolationism just won’t work in this day-and-age. The best way to stop Russia throwing its weight around is for the West (working together) to sanction it, help the countries it attacks fight it off (thus weakening it militarily) and build a powerful defence force to deter it. Eventually, the Russian people will get sick of living in poverty and misery and overthrow the psychotic sadists who are in charge there.

***As a result nearly 100,000 US soldiers have been killed in unconstitutional wars since 1945 and trillions of US taxpayer money has been spent***

I remember back in 2002 posters on here were organising pro-war rallies in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. “Give war a chance” was one of the slogans back then. I guess the political pendulum in the US has swung the other way now.

***Meanwhile, those same presidents, and Congress, have refused to defend the US borders from actual invasions of the homeland in which millions of people have resettled inside the homeland.***

Trump said he would build a wall along the Mexican border. He even said Mexico would pay for it. How did that go?

***Oh but if Putin gets his way in Ukraine, Russia will take over Europe.***

If Ukraine falls then Russia will be straight into neighbouring Moldova, that’s for sure. After succeeding there (with no NATO resistance) he may hit Lithuania next to link up Belarus (Russian ally) with Kaliningrad Oblast (Russian strategic military asset on the Baltic). This could not be ignored by NATO (at least its European members) and would result in a major war.

***Western Europe has already chosen its fate. The Western European nations will be Islamic states by 2050. It is a demographic destiny. Look at London today to see where the EU and Great Britain will be by 2050.***

At the last UK Census (in 2021) 6.5% of the UK was muslim. Even if that doubled in the next 20 years, it’s still a small minority. They certainly won’t be a majority by 2050. Also, British-born muslims are hardly a hostile invading foreign force (like Russia). They are typically much more liberal than their first generation immigrant parents.

***Ukraine is a dictatorship. Zelensky has banned political opposition and elections.***

No, Ukraine is not a dictatorship. All democratic countries postpone elections during major wars where their national survival is at risk. During World War 2 Britain did not have a General Election and it was never invaded by ground forces (unlike Ukraine which is fighting an invader on its own territory).

Political opposition (which is in favour of the enemy) is always suppressed during a major war in a democracy. To do otherwise would be to invite one’s own destruction.

***The press is heavily censored. Religion is oppressed.***

Yes, during a war for national survival there is censorship of the media. We had that in the UK during the World Wars too.

The Russian Orthodox Church has come out solidly behind Putin so you can understand the Ukrainians being very wary of its influence there.

***I hear the pro Ukraine voices say Putin is an evil dictator and he must be stopped.***

Putin is a murdering gangster. Have you forgotten about Bucha, Irpin and Mariupol? Forgotten about Politkovskaya, Litvinenko and Nemtsov? Already forgotten about Navalny?

***If Ukraine is so critical to Europe, the wealthy European nations should gladly pony up the billions needed to prop up the dictator in Ukraine and even shed the blood of their youth.***

They are pouring billions into Ukraine. No one is talking about NATO forces engaging Russia militarily in Ukraine. We are trying to arm Ukraine enough so they can, at least, halt Russia’s advance and then defend a fortified border against it with a view to securing fair ceasefire terms. But Ukraine needs financial support and munitions to do that. It cannot negotiate a Korean War style ceasefire/DMZ situation from a position of weakness.

I think the $300 billion in Russian assets frozen in Europe, the USA and Japan, should be released to support Ukraine’s war effort. (More money than that would be due to Ukraine as war reparations from Russia if there was any chance of making Russia pay out in the future.)

***This isn’t our fight any more than involving ourselves in a civil war in Vietnam was our fight in the 1960’s.***

You decided to get involved in that war on your own. The British government advised you against doing it. Now the whole of free Europe is telling you that Russia is big trouble and needs its wings clipping. Maybe it might be time to listen to them for a change.

***So in 2022 the Ukies could have settled it all.***

That wouldn’t have settled anything. It would have weakened Ukraine’s military still further and set them up for a successful Russian invasion a couple of years later.

***And now, two years later, they’ve lost even more land, 500,000 of their young men, half the population of their country has fled the hell-hole, the power is being turned off all across their country, and we’re sending billions making their payroll***

All of that would have happened anyway when the Russians came back for more land (they don’t honour their agreements). The whole eastern half of Ukraine would probably have fallen if the Ukrainian military had been weakened enough first.

***while we have invasions from across our own border, and people living in the streets not to mention cities across our country melting down with crime.***

What has the USA’s ongoing failure (over many years) to deal with its southern border problem, homelessness and violent street crime got to do with the Ukrainians? You’re conflating issues.

If NATO is perceived by our enemies as weak then all Hell could break lose. Russia, China, Iran and North Korea might all kick off simultaneously and work together, leading us into World War 3. Deterrence is key to preventing aggression by the enemy and making empty promises and looking weak is no deterrent.

And if Trump is so great then why didn’t he build the wall he PROMISED he would build on the border with Mexico when he was President for 4 years? He even claimed he would make Mexico pay for it! He’s currently using his MAGA Republicans to block a deal in Congress to stem the illegal immigration crisis because he wants the issue to still be live during the election campaign.

***Maybe in your little mind they’re not protecting their land and people — when the US/NATO have publically stated they want to dethrone Putin***

Even if that were true, Putin is not the Russian people. He is a brutal dictator who murders his political opponents with impunity. It’s no loss to Russia if he is ousted.

***NATO when we told them at the end of the Cold War we would stop expanding NATO***

That’s Kremlin propaganda. We made no such promise.

Furthermore, if Putin is so terribly worried about the expansion of NATO eastwards then why do the very thing which would (and did) cause Sweden and Finland to join NATO as soon as possible? (Those countries have traditionally been neutral, they would only join NATO if they saw Russian aggression as a very real and imminent threat.)

***Russia is doing the same as we did in Cuba in the 60s. Russia is also doing the same we would do if they popped missiles on our border with Mexico and/or Canada.***

Hardly. Ukraine gave up all its advanced conventional (and nuclear) weapons to keep the Russians happy. The weapons it has now are mostly only suitable for short-range use on the battlefield and are no strategic threat to Russia. When they sent a drone to attack the Kremlin it only succeeded in blowing up harmlessly on the roof!

You don’t really believe all that Kremlin propaganda about the Ukrainians setting up bioweapons labs and trying to make nuclear weapons do you?

***Big mistake for Boris and Zelensky to stop the agreement that was practically ready to be signed.***

I assume you’re referring to the time Putin offered Ukraine a terrible deal and called it a “peace” deal and Zelensky told him no thanks and the next day Boris Johnson arrived in Kiev and when informed what happened told Zelensky he made the right decision. (There was only a one-sided draft agreement, none of the negotiators present were authorised to agree on the terms.) The Kremlin propagandists then said Johnson sabotaged an agreed peace plan. Total nonsense!

Russia had “offered” to pull back a bit if Ukraine would let them keep the areas they had annexed and agreed to never join NATO or build up their military. But this was never going to be accepted as it was an obvious attempt by Russia to try and stall the war in order to regroup and attack again later. Also, the discussions were cut short when the Ukrainian side left following the discovery of the Russian mass-murder scene at Bucha.

Sure, Ukraine could surrender, but the worst case scenario for NATO is Ukraine falling into Putin’s hands (as it will encourage him to continue throwing his weight around in the region). It’s also the worst case for Ukraine and the USA.

***Russkies have every right to protect their land — just like we did in the 1960s by invading and blockading Cuba. ... So, if Russia and China placed missiles on our borders with Mexico and Canada, we just sit there and watch.***

Russia is not protecting its land. It has carved a land corridor to Crimea out of Ukraine and has the intention to take much more of Ukraine’s territory. Ukraine was no threat to Russian territory. It gave up all its nuclear weapons, SRBMs, cruise missiles and strategic bombers at Russia’s behest. What kind of aggressive enemy does that?

***Oh sure! That’s worked out really well for the Ukies/US/NATO.***

I guess the Ukies were relying on all the empty promises the USA made to them previously about not hanging them out to dry if the Russians invaded them. Big mistake there!

***We’re still pouring money down a rat/homo hole, looking for more money, and trying to scrounge up more military equipment***

Sorry, “homo hole”? Are you feeling OK?

***to ship to the Ukie/Zelensky eviscerating machine.***

Put the blame on Putin where it belongs. Russia invaded Ukraine. Zelensky is of Jewish-Russian origin. To suggest that he is a Nazi as the Kremlin does is utterly ludicrous.

***Smart. Real smart. You idot.***

So your solution is to reward Russia’s criminal behaviour by allowing them to roll over Ukraine, torture/rape/murder the people there with impunity and take what they want? And you think they won’t have a go at another neighbouring country after they do that? Presumably, you just don’t care, because, homos!

From the UK perspective we’ve sent them every tank we can spare and more missiles than we really could spare. The problem with “give it all to them and they can fight Russia so we don’t have to” is that if we leave ourselves woefully under-defended that would be a massive problem if they fail to halt the Russian expansion westwards, which thanks to the USA’s indifference is now a real possibility.

***They’ve got enough money to support muzzies and illegals, while taking the natural rights of its citizens away.***

We just fulfil our duties under international law the same way the US does. Natural rights of UK citizens? Do you mean the right to bear arms or something else?

***We saved Europe’s ass twice.***

The first time was to make sure you got the war loans you made to the UK back.

The second time was after you heard the Nazis were about to declare war on you after their ally, Japan, attacked Pearl Harbor. If it hadn’t been for that attack the USA would have stayed out of the war. Interestingly, the US economy DOUBLED in size during World War 2.

If Russia beats Ukraine then the latter’s Armed Forces and population will be turned against NATO and Putin will be empowered to cause even more mischief. A large war in Europe will damage US interests too and send the price of fuel through the roof.