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Did Jesus Truly Say, “I Will Build My Church Upon Peter?”
The reason For My faith ^ | 6/3/22 | Chuck Ness

Posted on 01/08/2024 1:18:20 PM PST by OneVike

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Until now I have not shared my opinion of what I think of the many inherent ways the Catholic Church has misinterpreted Scripture throughout the years. I can no longer be silent on the subject, because it is one that the Catholic Church has used to teach heresy.

To begin with, the Catholic Church has been making a mockery of Scripture for many years. There are many beliefs the Catholic Church holds that I have problems with, but for now I will explain why they are wrong in their interpretation that Peter is the rock upon which Christ has built His church.

Jesus is the ONLY foundation which His church can and is built upon. The only rock of truth is Jesus Christ and we need to keep our eyes on him, not some man chosen by flawed men. We need not pay attention to what color of smoke is billowing from a building built by flawed men to learn who the voice of God will be, because we already know. We are to look to no one else as the foundation or the hope on which the church is built, but Jesus, The Son of God.

“For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,” 

(1 Corinthians 3:11)

When Peter answered Jesus by stating,

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” 

(Matthew 16:16)

Jesus answered and said to him,

“Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 

(Matthew 16:17-18)

To begin with, when you look at the original wording of Matthew, it was written in Koinonia Greek, which was the language of the common man in the day of Christ. Koinonia Greek was what today’s modern American English is to everyone from America to Korea, the universal language spoken around the world. So when you look at the original language Matthew was written in you will see something that is not readily apparent. When Jesus said,

“…you are Peter [(πΠέτρος) (petros)] and upon this

Rock [(πέτρᾳ) (petra)] I will build My church…”

(Matthew 18a)

Greek nouns have genders, which is similar to the English words actor and actress. The first is masculine and the second is feminine. Likewise, the Greek word, “petros”, is masculine; “petra” is feminine. Peter, the man, is appropriately referred to as, “Petros.” But Jesus said that the rock he would build his church on was not the masculine, “petros”, rather the feminine, “petra.”

A good example of this would be Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, where he refers to Jesus as the rock that followed the Israelites through the desert;

“and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were

drinking from a spiritual rock [(πέτρᾳ) (petras)] which

followed them; and the Rock [(πέτρᾳ) (petra)] was Christ.” 

(1Corinthians 10:4)

It must be pointed out that in Peter’s 1st letter, he refers to Jesus as the “Rock”,

Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion

A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,

And he who believes on Him will

by no means be put to shame.” (Isaiah 28:16)

Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone,” (Psalms 118:22)

“A stone of stumbling”

And 

“a Rock of offense.” (Isaiah 8:14)

(1Peter 2:7-8)

So the word translated in this passage is not the same word as Peter, and nothing can be more wrong than to suppose Jesus meant Peter the person.  It’s ludicrous to claim that Jesus would build HIS church upon a sinful flawed individual. HE emphatically stated HE would build it upon the “truth” of which Peter recognized. That truth being, “Jesus is The Christ, The Son of The Living God!” Something we know Peter himself understood by reading his first epistle, as I pointed out above. 

Thus if Peter himself used the word, “petra” to refer to Jesus, then shouldn’t we? We can also see where Paul referred to Jesus as the rock, “petra”.

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a Rock of offense,

and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.” 

(Romans 9:33)

 

We also see the word, "Rock," used throughout the Old Testament to refer to GOD.

 

“The Rock! His work is perfect, for all His ways are just;

a God of faithfulness and without injustice.” 

(Deuteronomy 32:4)

“The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;

My God, my Rock, in whom I take refuge.” 

(2 Samuel 22:2-3)

“And who is a Rock, except our God.” 

(Psalms 18:31)

“Is there any God besides Me, or

is there any other Rock? I know of none.” 

(Isaiah 44:8)

Finally, I challenge anyone to prove to me that, at any time in the Scriptures, GOD ever referred to any man as a rock.  However, throughout Scriptures we are told about the perfection of the Rock which is Christ, not a sinful man named Peter. So why would Jesus build His church upon an unstable human who needs to be saved? He wouldn't, and He didn't. It should be obvious from the Word of God that the Rock Jesus was referring to was not Peter, but himself.

“For no man can lay a foundation other than the

one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,” 

(1 Corinthians 3:11)


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholicinventions; cephas; garbagepost; jesusrock; kepha; learnaramaic; liar; peter; petermeanspebble; petra; petros; popefrancis; prevaricatingpapism; rock; sela; yeshedid
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To: metmom; OneVike

Matthew 16:16ff and Logic

Assumptions:
1. Matthew 16:16ff is written exactly the way that the Lord wanted it to be written.
2. All who seek the truth should arrive at the same understanding of scriptural doctrine.

Try this:
Nothing is better than heaven.
An apple is better than nothing.
Therefore, an apple is better than heaven.

Instinctively, we KNOW that is poor logic.
That syllogism illustrates the Equivocation Fallacy.
The meaning of the linking concept, “Nothing,” changes it underlying meaning.
In the Major Premise, it includes *everything, substance, concept, et.al.
In the Minor Premise, it is vacant, void, empty.

Christ will build his church on a rock.
(One) rock is Peter.
Therefore, Christ will build his church on Peter.

However, the underlying meaning of “rock” changes in the original Greek.
If we were to keep the underlying meaning, the syllogism would read:

Christ will build his church on a huge mass of stone.
A pebble is Peter.
Therefore, ........

It is then argued that Jesus *likely* spoke Aramaic to his disciples. In that language there is only the word “stone”.
Therefore, the disciples was not given any distinction between Peter, a stone, and the building of the Lord’s church on a stone.
Problem solved.

The assumption that Jesus spoke Aramaic to the disciples on this occasion is difficult to argue against. Still, that assertion is made up from thin air.
WE DO NOT KNOW THE LANGUAGE THE LORD USED.

Not all thin air is the same thin air, maybe.
With the same confidence, one could argue that Jesus did speak in Aramaic and said something to the effect, “Peter you are a tiny, little, unstable stone and on this huge, solid, unmovable stone, I will build my church.

Speaking of conjunctions, the conjunction, “but”, might be as appropriate/more appropriate replacement for “and”. I am unable to say.

The earliest texts of the Bible are written in Greek. And the words petros and petra are in Matthews manuscript because the Lord himself influenced Matthew to write exactly that. Who am I to tell the Lord he was wrong?


321 posted on 01/09/2024 9:59:19 AM PST by NorthStarOkie (Satan doesn't have to lie if he can confuse us about the truth.)
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To: JesusIsLord
As a result, some Christians will not recognize a person of another denomination as being a Christian.

Unfortunately true.

The (Protestant vs Catholic), Charismatic vs Fundamentalist) divides we read in FR and witness outside FR are some examples of the body being divided - IMHO.

Agreed.

322 posted on 01/09/2024 10:08:49 AM PST by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus…)
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To: metmom; OneVike

Alexander, the Great, is the main reason the Lord had the New Testament written in Greek. When his kingdom stretched from Spain to India to Libya, he commanded that all official documents be in Greek.

Thus, when the New Testament was written, immediately, it could be understood by even those in the far reaches of his former kingdom.

Also, the Romans built roads all over the kingdom, so travel was accommodated. Everyone was a “Roman citizen”, so to speak, so they didn’t need passports, etc. During the time of Christ and after, the Pox Romana, the Peace of Rome, guaranteed some degree of safety.


323 posted on 01/09/2024 10:10:28 AM PST by NorthStarOkie (Satan doesn't have to lie if he can confuse us about the truth.)
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To: NorthStarOkie
Who am I to tell the Lord he was wrong?

Good question, but apparently a number of people seem to feel they are in that position when they change clear, concise teachings of Jesus.

324 posted on 01/09/2024 10:12:36 AM PST by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus…)
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To: Parmy

All the apostles preached the same gospel (in different languages) on Pentecost, but Peter was the one recorded. He took the gospel to the Jews.

He was the first to preach the gospel to Gentiles, the Roman Centurion, Cornelius.

He, with John, gave the special gift of the Holy Spirit to those in Samaria whom Philip converted.

He wrote two letters that are in our Bible.


325 posted on 01/09/2024 10:16:02 AM PST by NorthStarOkie (Satan doesn't have to lie if he can confuse us about the truth.)
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To: MayflowerMadam

Please send reference for Greek adjective allocation.


326 posted on 01/09/2024 10:19:20 AM PST by G Larry ("XFKAT" We can't keep spelling out "X Formerly Known As Twitter"!)
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To: Petrosius

When the Church has denied Paul and Scripture’s first/chief importance of the gospel,I don’t take the Modern Church hierarchy as anything but a fully leavened corrupted Kingdom.


327 posted on 01/09/2024 10:31:39 AM PST by delchiante
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To: Petrosius
You are failing to distinguish between the Ordinary Magisterium (teaching authority) and Extraordinary Magisterium. The former is the universal day-to-day teaching of the Church; the latter is the formal definitions of ecumenical councils or popes. They are both infallible. Formal definitions are only made when the universal day-to-day teaching is called into question.

You are failing to distinguish between non-infallible teachings of the Ordinary Magisterium and infallible ones, and the criteria for the each. Not all teachings by the OM are infallible. "§3. No doctrine is understood as defined infallibly unless this is manifestly evident. - https://www.vatican.va/archive/cod-iuris-canonici/eng/documents/cic_lib3-cann747-755_en.html#BOOK_III." ) V2 is not held as infallible, yet to such a level of assent is required. But which issue your TradCath brethren debate about, while there is no infallible list of what magisterial level belongs to, and thus what level of assent is required.)

And the fact that scholarly disagreements over the canonicity (proper) of certain books continued down through the centuries and right into Trent, until it provided the first "infallible," indisputable canon — after the death of Luther testifies to the canon not requiring assent.

What you have shown is that, despite hesitation by some, the Catholics did indeed hold that the deuterocanonical books were part of the Bible. Yes, there was a formal definition at Trent in response to the Protestants, but this did not change what had already been held by Catholics.

Your statement is also misleading, and does not at all refute what I expressed, as it is what history and RC sources state. Which is that the formal definition at Trent in response to the Protestants did indeed change what had already been held by many Catholics, including scholars (Athanasius of Alexandria, Rufinus , Cyril of Jerusalem, Jerome John of Damascus, Gregory of Nazianzus, Cardinal Cajetan - who himself was actually an adversary of Luther - Cardinal Ximenes, plus Jews), and thus the formal definition at Trent did change what had already been held by many Catholics, versus being anything close to a settled indisputable canon

For my response was to the typical inference that the 73-books RC canon was established during the Synod of Rome in 382, as if "Rome has spoken: the matter was settled" against which Luther is cast as a rebel (even though this was not cited as a reason for his excom) - and which was simply set forth as personal opinion, for which he had substantial Cath. scholarly support, and did not set the Prot canon - is simply far from the reality.

328 posted on 01/09/2024 11:08:47 AM PST by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: Petrosius
There are three Greek words in the New Testament that the KJV translated as "hell" and therein lies the confusion for the meaning of that portion of Matthew 16:18.

Here is a case where "hell" is an appropriate choice in translation.
Luke 12:
But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
329 posted on 01/09/2024 11:29:15 AM PST by af_vet_1981 ( The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Honest Nigerian; Stingray51
Just for clarity, what is your understanding of why Jesus renamed Simon as Peter other than as a reference to some kind of rock? Thanks

Not sure what Scripture says about that.

No need to be unsure any longer.

Let's READ what it says! (I know - what a concept on FR)


Did JESUS change Simon's  name to PETER?
 


NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
NIV Matthew 8:14
  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can plainly see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE  chapter 16 verse 18  came along.....


NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
"You are Simon, son of John; you will be called Cephas, meaning Rock" (John 1:42).

330 posted on 01/09/2024 11:56:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RightOnTheBorder
... given the Catholics have been pretty consistent on the whole Peter/rock/foundation thing for the last 2000 years.

Sorry, but early Church Fathers have NOT been consistant on this at all.

Read along with statements from a lot of them...

 As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following Early Church Fathers promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:

 

 

 • Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

 

 Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

 

 Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

 

 Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)

 

 Cyril of Alexandria:

When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

 

 Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)

 

 Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):

Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.


331 posted on 01/09/2024 12:01:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007

Who is THE Rock?


332 posted on 01/09/2024 12:03:42 PM PST by vpintheak (Pinko misanthrope)
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To: RightOnTheBorder
 
Even the Roman Catechism can't agree with itself!!

 
How the Catechism of the Catholic Church” now describes the “Petrine succession”:

881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”

883 “The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.” As such, this college has “supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff.”

Sure different than what Augustine and many OTHER Early Church Fathers taught; isn't it

That is ALSO different from what the CCC said earlier!
 


PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER TWO
I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

The Good News: God has sent his Son

422 'But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.'1 This is 'the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God':'2 God has visited his people. He has fulfilled the promise he made to Abraham and his descendants. He acted far beyond all expectation - he has sent his own 'beloved Son'.3

423 We believe and confess that Jesus of Nazareth, born a Jew of a daughter of Israel at Bethlehem at the time of King Herod the Great and the emperor Caesar Augustus, a carpenter by trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of the emperor Tiberius, is the eternal Son of God made man. He 'came from God',4 'descended from heaven',5 and 'came in the flesh'.6 For 'the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. . . And from his fullness have we all received, grace upon grace.'7

424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'8 On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.9

 

 

 


333 posted on 01/09/2024 12:04:22 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RightOnTheBorder
Let's check out another record of the event in the bible:


  

 


334 posted on 01/09/2024 12:07:01 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Adder
Pretty simple and straight forward. It gets no more clear.

...and lacking context.


335 posted on 01/09/2024 12:08:01 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BipolarBob

...or a cousin.


336 posted on 01/09/2024 12:08:22 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“As you can plainly see, Simon was already known as ‘Peter’”

Actually, I do not see that. The Gospels were written years after the facts described. By the time the words were written down, Peter had long been known as Peter, so to me it makes sense that he would have been identified as Peter even when describing events prior to the name change.


337 posted on 01/09/2024 12:09:57 PM PST by Stingray51 ( )
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To: G Larry
Pretending Christ wasn't referring to Peter is nonsense.

Oh?

Could you explain this so Augustine can understand it?


 
 

 Augustine, sermon:

"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer.  John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327

 

Augustine, sermon:

Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18).  John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.

 

 Augustine, sermon:

For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)

 

 Augustine, sermon:

And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289

 

 Augustine, sermon:

Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95

 

 Augustine, sermon:

...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193

 

 Augustine, Psalm LXI:

Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)

 

 Augustine, in “Retractions,”

In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable.  The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.

 


338 posted on 01/09/2024 12:11:50 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Parmy
Perhaps someone can tell me what Peter’s role was after the Crucifixion in Acts.

Well; in the 15th chapter thereof, he was part of the WHOLE church, and THIS little episode occurred...

Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem
 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."

 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them:

 "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

 12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. "Brothers," he said, "listen to me. 14 Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 16 "'After this I will return
   and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
 18 things known from long ago.

 19 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers
 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
 36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing." 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

339 posted on 01/09/2024 12:19:14 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: arthurus
So perhaps Jesus said Cephas and the greek writer translated it to Peter.

Quite serpentlike...


340 posted on 01/09/2024 12:22:27 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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