Posted on 07/22/2021 2:08:48 PM PDT by ebb tide
Francis fought the Roman Mass already as Buenos Aires Archbishop after Benedict XVI published his 2007 Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum.
He allowed a Roman Mass in the Sacred Heart chapel in Flores, central Buenos Aires. The Archdiocese has - theoretically - 3 Million Catholics. A group including many young people attended this Mass for about three years until Bergoglio suspended it in June 2010.
This and other refusals to allow the Roman Mass were documented by Pagina-Catolica.Blogspot.com.
Priests willing to celebrate the Roman Mass ran against Bergoglio's secret provision that the Roman Liturgy could only be celebrated in two places: Our Lady of Mount Carmel and St Michael the Archangel where the Novus Ordo readings were imposed on the Roman Rite and read by laypersons, both men and women. But even in these two chapels this abusive form of the Roman Mass was eventually cancelled.
Ping
“How Bergoglio “Obeyed” Summorum Pontificum...”
I read that first as “How Bergoglio obeyed Saruman.”
Giving Bible readings in a foreign & dead language makes the meaning and impactful of the Bible readings less comprehendable.
Anyone working on making the Bible less comprehendible to people is - literally - anti-Christ.
Sir, I attend the Latin Mass and have done so weekly for more than a decade. A nearly every Latin Mass I’ve attended in multiple cities, states and countries, the epistle and gospel are read first in Latin and then in the local language. This isn’t new. The debate here is about which translation is to be used. Bergoglio is mandating that the new translations be used, but the problem is that the old Mass’s readings doing precisely line up with the new one, and thus it’d be a project to impose the old on the new.
Just standing back from all this as a non-Catholic my thoughts are “Good God, did Jesus really want some huge cryptic edifice built where the average person could not understand it?” He spoke in simple parables SPECIFICALLY so the common person could understand. All of this reaks of a power and control scheme by the church over the years to keep the adherents dependent on some “professional middle man”. Is that on the spirit of what Jesus did/wanted? No. He got rid of priests as go betweens.
And established the office of apostle which is continued in the offices of bishop, priest (presbyter), and deacon. See Acts and Paul in the New Testament.
Office of the Apostle ?
YOU GO READ PAUL and tell me if he thought his role as Apostle was as you describe. He did not.
By contrast, the NO Mass too often ends up being a performance _by_ the priest, in his own words, with the people facing Him, and God apparently somewhere off in the distance, but not visibly the object toward whom the action points.
Now, you tell me: in which case do we have more of a "professional middle man"?
They're in a book called a "missal," which anyone can buy for a nominal fee. Unless you're concerned with catering to the illiterate, I don't see your point.
We're talking about a prayer anyway. It's not intended to be a classroom lecture.
Are you denying that Paul described a church with the offices of bishop, priest (presbyter) and deacon?
Why is it in Latin? Do all the people saying it understand each word spoken?
Are you denying that the modern versions would not be abhorrent to him?
I should have caucused this thread to keep the nuts off of it.
My apologies.
I forgive you, ebb : ] I began to get a little riled at the ignorance and condescension on display, and then it dawned on me. Being Catholic requires equanimity in the face of all the slander. Thus it has been for 2000 years. This always cheers me up: the priest who denied the Eucharist to Joe Biden in Florence, SC last year came to our Parish in a small town 20 minutes north of Columbia in March to establish the TLM. It is truly wonderful.
The people who wish to understand it can follow in a book that anyone can buy. Those who wish to pray interiorly from their heart, in their own thoughts, are free to do that as well. It's a prayer, not a university lecture.
That's great news and good for Fr. Morey! I've always admired this brave priest for denying Biden Holy Communion.
Do they actually call them readers now, and not lectors?
Readings from the Bible are not a prayer, they aren't addressed to God, God already Knows all this.
Readings from the Bible are to teach people what the Bible and Christ seek to teach us. To anchor us in the faith when things get rough. To get us to do the right thing, especially when that choice is very hard to do.
I've been to the TLM. A lot. And the reason why I posted on this thread is that I've experienced many times when the readings were only said in the Latin translation, the English translation was skipped, and the priest just didn't seem to care. (Or they'd also say that things were less valid if not said in Latin, like it conjures up magical properties.)
And as far as being referred to as a "nut", well, I'll take that in stride. I know the TLM community fairly well, I'm not surprised in what some of their members say.
By contrast, the NO Mass too often ends up being a performance ...Half cooking show, half magic show. JMO.
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