Posted on 06/19/2018 7:37:29 PM PDT by Frank Broom
Agreed. Sad.
Chapter and verse please.
And not the one that says that Jesus bore our sickness. The one that states that we simply have to declare it because if we don't we are denying what Jesus has already done for us.
Some articles for your consideration.
Promised a miracle?
https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/2001/02/promised-a-miracle.html
The Faith Healer Next Door
https://medium.com/galleys/the-faith-healer-next-door-7eff360bd090
JOEL OSTEEN: APPRISING HIS WORD FAITH TEACHINGS
http://apprising.org/2008/08/30/joel-osteen-apprising-his-word-faith-teachings/
Under the heading of “So What’s Wrong With Teaching Faith?” part way down in the article.
The interpretation of the verse about Timothy is not mine - it is held by other scholars who understood the times and the living conditions. If one is regularly sick because of bad water, the answer is not divine healing, it is to perhaps to avoid the suspect water where possible.
The will of God is that we be healed. That is clear from His Word. Jesus healed all who came to Him. He never refused healing and never gave any indication that it was God’s will that anyone stay sick. (e.g., Mat. 4:24; Mat. 12:15)
Our problem is that we give our experience precedence over the Word of God. We reason from our experience and so judge the Word rather than judging our experience by the Word.
For one thing, if we do not believe that healing is God’s will we will not persevere in believing, and “all the promises of god are inherited through faith and perseverance.” (Hbr. 6:12) Instead we will persevere in unbelief regardless of what the Word says.
Hopefully, the website will provide more complete answers to some of your questions.
When people came to Jesus for healing, He healed them. End of story.
There was no lecturing them on having enough faith, no sending people away with symptoms telling them they had sin in their lives, generational curses, not enough faith, their symptoms were lies from the enemy, that they should go out and act as if they were healed to prove that they believed it, to expect it at a later date, that the healing had begun and you’d gradually improve, etc and so forth.
None of all the typical excuses for someone not being healed.
What has happened in the Pentecostal/Word of faith movement is that people have decided how God is going to work, how He MUST work according the the character THEY have decided He has, and rather than admit that there’s something wrong with their theology, they blame everyone else when someone is not healed.
The healers offer weak excuses for the times their theology doesn’t work and the result is heaping up of blame and condemnation on the person who is already struggling with their illness and often with their faith.
It does a tremendous amount of spiritual damage to a person, and yet again, the blame is laid at the feet of the sick person, for not having enough faith, not wanting to submit fully to God, for having sin in their lives they refuse to deal with.
Lots of claims made by people who don’t know what they are talking about for why the healing didn’t happen, and yet always a refusal to admit their theology is lacking.
A lot of the claimed Scriptural support for the faith healing is based on rationalization and presumption about God rather than good, solid Scripture to back it up.
For example, since it is recorded that Jesus healed everyone who approached Him for healing, the claim is then made that it’s God’s will for us to be healed.
Well, show us the verse that specifically say that.
And if it’s God’s will for us to be healed, then why do we not see more?
Is God not powerful enough to intervene when someone has weak faith? That happened in the gospels, that people with weak faith were healed.
Is He not powerful enough to heal in spite of sin in a person’s life? Again, that happened in the gospels, He healed anyways, often before the person was saved. And yes, Jesus did tell some to go and sin no more lest something worse happen. But that didn’t prevent Jesus from healing them in the first place.
The idea that our symptoms are lies from the enemy is itself a lie from the enemy.
My God’s ability to heal is stronger than the enemy’s lies and if I still have symptoms, then I have not yet been healed because when God heals, it’s a done deal.
Claiming that you are healed in the spiritual realm when you are still manifesting symptoms is just another excuse people make when their theology doesn’t work out as they expect.
Derek Prince is a very old school Pentecostal preacher and has a lot to say about healing that is very good, but even he admits that some people don’t get healed and nobody knows why.
Do you want to go tell Joni Eareckson Tada that she doesn’t have enough faith to be healed? Go ahead, I dare all you name it and claim it faith advocates. Go and heal her and then tell her why she isn’t healed.
In this video segment, Joni tells what she’s dealt with at the hands of supposed faith healers. It’s reprehensible.
A Deeper Healing (Joni Eareckson Tada) (Selected Scriptures)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI22o5u32z0
This is the clearly laid out Scriptural paradigm for healing.
The person is anointed, prayed for4, confession is made and then the results are left to God and His discretion.
Most involved in faith healing do NOT follow this precedent and that leaves it wide open to spiritual attack.
So I take it you have never been sick? Are you plannng to live a few hundred years ?
That verse alone should dispel the "name it and claim it everyone gets healed" false teaching.
Does God heal sometimes? Yes He does.
Are there some cases where He does not heal? Yes there are.
In the examples we have in the NT, when people were healed there were immediate results. Not drawn out affairs.
You're advancing a false gospel.
No glasses. No medications. No blood pressure issues, cholesterol, hair loss, a step slower in your abilities, etc.
Gee whiz MM. Didn’t we just have a knock down, drag out thread on this very same subject, just a few days ago, and now we are right back at it? I am just not into the health/wealth, name it/claim it gospel.
By the way, by his stripes we are healed, I don’t think refers to physical healing, but spiritual healing. I think it refers to our salvation experience. Our sins are forgiven, but our physical problems may or may not be healed.
Wow, my pastor just referenced Elijah and the rain story last night at Holy Scripture Study.
We are going to begin study of healing in the near future.
Re: post 31
Soon I am going to learn about this subject in my Holy Scripture Study Class. A friend of mine asked me to try a Bible Study he was attending, because it was expanding his knowledge of Scripture so quickly and deeply. I have been going for 3 months. I am learning more in his classes than I have my whole life. He is blessed and his students are blessed.
Going to “regular” church, I never got the Biblical knowledge I am gaining at this study meeting every week.
He has taught us about what you wrote. I understand why some reject it, but it is all in the Holy Scriptures! I accept all Holy Scripture as God-breathed and as absolute Truth.
And another thought MM. People came to Jesus for healing, but we don’t know for sure, that ALL of them were actually saved from their sins. Many of them probably were, but all of them? I don’t know.
The comment of *by His stripes we are healed* is not a promise of blanket healing.
It’s a statement of what is the reason we are healed when it happens.
The stripes are the mechanism through which healing occurs, but it’s not a guarantee of it, and yet that verse has been misapplied so often as people use is to try to blackmail God into healing them.
They throw that and other verses up in His face and demand and command the healing to come.
And I have NEVER seen it work.
Here’s an interesting little video segment on healing. It’s just over 3 minutes long.
Aaron Shust shares Michael’s miracle story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVRy-t3S0ts
Before Adam fell from the state of Grace, by his own willful disobedience, were there bacteria in the world? If the asserter cannot answer that question their knowledge is too limited to reason with them from the scriptures on these healing issues.
There is no discretion involved, as proven by the woman with the discharge of blood in Mark 5 who simply touched Christ’s garments without His even knowing, and she was healed.
Recall: “there is no partiality with God.” Rom. 2:11
If discretion was involved, how much faith could any one person exercise that God had sovereignly selected him or her? None...for we all know ourselves and our failings.
Who said anything about never being sick? If we were never sick we would never need to understand how to be healed.
Healing is for the sick - if we didn’t get sick why concern ourselves with healing? Please re-read my posts. Thanks,
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