Glad to hear that you disagree with those who insist everyone born again must speak in tongues. Do you agree that these so-called "miraculous sign gifts" can be counterfeited? How are believers to tell the difference? What is called speaking in tongues today - as far as the vast majority are concerned - are ecstatic, babbling utterances that are NOT in any language known to man. When the first instances of this gift were given, foreigners who did not speak the same language of the disciples HEARD the gospel in their own language (Acts 2:6-8). Does the same thing happen today?
No, I don't think the gifts were only relegated to the 1st Century Jewish believers and converted Gentiles to Christ among them, but why does it seem that the showy, attention grabbing ones are emphasized over those that actually edify ALL? I don't picture Paul - who said he spoke in tongues more than others - sitting alone in his room playing around with it like a toy. It had a purpose. With the completed Scriptures being translated into over a thousand languages today, of what use is tongues outside of being able to evangelize those whose language is not yet known? But, IS that what modern day tongues-speakers do - preach the gospel to those whose language they don't know? I don't see it. CAN it happen today? Sure...I'm not about to deny the power of God to accomplish His will in any way He deems. He is a God of miracles.
How about this...instead of condemning each other for nonsense or heresy, why don't we honestly discuss the points, bring forth our proof texts and, if necessary, agree to disagree? I think the enemy of our souls would be delighted to cause dissension over this and it probably IS one reason why there are counterfeits. We should judge our experiences by Scripture, not the other way around.
I doubt that many people realize that *speaking in tongues* is not necessarily restricted to Christianity and Spirit filled Christians.
There are other religions that practice it as well, so yes, it can be faked.
As far as other *manifestations, there is something called the *kundalini spirit* that has infected the church and produces the kind of manifestations that people now say are from God, things like being slain in the Spirit, *drunken glory*, *holy laughter* etc.
I found this video some time ago that I thought was very interesting dealing with it.
The Kundalini Spirit has Invaded The Church Masquerading as The Holy Spirit !!! BE VIGILANT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfXmDkQiE2o
Yes. All I can explain is how I came to have a modicum of authority on the subject.
1. Spiritual experiences in the church can never go "beyond what is written" in the Word or cross the boundaries of the spiritual experiences that are found in the Bible. In other words, no additions, even in spiritual experiences, unless it is found in Scripture.
2. If a metaphoric prophecy is given, meaning if flowery, Bibical sounding language is used, then you check this language to make sure even the metaphors or elements described in the prophecy are used in same manner as the Word.
You would be surprised how "Biblical sounding" language tricks most people into submission. (But then, that's the whole problem of the Book of Mormon! It sounds so Bible-ish.)
3. Understanding that there are seducing spirits and "doctrines of demons" or, more precisely, demons who deliver doctrines. This is where most of the people of the NAR that i have heard and tested get caught, if anyone wants to catch them.
I believe it is familiar spirits that animate their "personal prophecies" over people and why there is some definite "accuracy" about what they say.
But it's the same familiar spirit that Paul cast out of the fortune teller girl; and like Satan himself, these spirits will always give themselves away at some point.
4. Supernatural signs. The shaking thing puzzled me the most in charismatic circles, because I knew the people it was happening to, and I also believe that the Holy Spirit is a spirit of self control, so He will never overpower a believer with a shaking or slain in the spirit thing.
So I looked it up in the Bible to see what it might mean on God's terms, when people start to shake in meetings.
Was shocked. The only place in the Bible where anyone shakes is Jeremiah. And he is shaking in his bones because he is horrified by being in the presence of evil false prophets. I truly believe this is a supernatural sign for believers to "get the H*** out" of these antiChrist prophetic meetings.
5. Dreams, visions, prophecies etc. The first thing we have to do is realize the Bible interprets itself. When God turns a phrase or uses a symbol (let's say "mud") you have to have faith that if God is giving you a dream about mud, mud will be interpreted in your dream in the same way it is used in the Bible. This is because God cannot contradict Himself.
If a dream or vision or prophesy is given, it will line up in these details with however these symbols or elements are used in the Word. (try the Lord in this, next time you have a perplexing dream. You will be amazed.)
6. Learning to recognize metaphor versus commonsense practice in the Bible. The most lamentable practice I've seen in charismatic churches is the employment of the words "I bind you Satan!" or "I bind the strongman of poverty" or some other such nonsense.
Binding and loosing has to do with the Jewish idea of spiritual authority. Moses had the power of binding and loosing when he judged the everyday problems of the Hebrews daily lives. Solomon had it. And Peter was given it (and so are we, when we are leaders in a church)... it means that you will be given the insight into what Heaven thinks on a matter, as Peter knew Ananias and Sapphiras lied to the Holy Spirit and died. "Binding the strongman or the strongest man in a house" is an apt metaphor that Jesus was employing to describe what happens when a spirit is rendered impotent by presence of the Holy Spirit.
I'm not doing justice to this problem but it doesn't mean that we are to pray "I bind the strongman of hate"... because Jesus just meant to show that His power takes care of the demonic.
FInally, charismatics pray about "strongholds" as mentioned by Paul "we are to pull down every stronghold, everything that resists the power of God"... They pray incorrectly thus: "I break this stronghold in the name of Jesus".
Well, that's just stupid. A stronghold is a set of wrong thinking, usually of unbelief or fear or doubt in an individual's life. So to "break it" by a shouted prayer is ridiculous. You must lovingly apply the Word in discussion with this person, to see if you might win them to Christ, because salvation comes through our minds, what we think and therefore what we believe of in Jesus.
My hands are getting tired if typing. But charismatics also don't realize that when John said "test the spirits my beloved... those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh are antichrist" charismatics will simply ask a person that is demonized "do you believe Jesus came in the flesh?" And if the person says yes, then they believe they have "tested the spirits".
This is most ridiculous, again. What John means, by testing, is that we put what the spirits are teaching theologically to the test of the Word, as did the Bereans.
But charismatics on the whole don't read the word. Too much into wanting to find Jesus put gemstones in their backyards.
I'm forgetting to test for flattering spirits in false prophecy. That's a good one.
Will come back later. GBU