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To: boatbums; metmom; pastorbillrandles
"Do you agree that these so-called "miraculous sign gifts" can be counterfeited? How are believers to tell the difference?

Yes. All I can explain is how I came to have a modicum of authority on the subject.

1. Spiritual experiences in the church can never go "beyond what is written" in the Word or cross the boundaries of the spiritual experiences that are found in the Bible. In other words, no additions, even in spiritual experiences, unless it is found in Scripture.

2. If a metaphoric prophecy is given, meaning if flowery, Bibical sounding language is used, then you check this language to make sure even the metaphors or elements described in the prophecy are used in same manner as the Word.

You would be surprised how "Biblical sounding" language tricks most people into submission. (But then, that's the whole problem of the Book of Mormon! It sounds so Bible-ish.)

3. Understanding that there are seducing spirits and "doctrines of demons" or, more precisely, demons who deliver doctrines. This is where most of the people of the NAR that i have heard and tested get caught, if anyone wants to catch them.

I believe it is familiar spirits that animate their "personal prophecies" over people and why there is some definite "accuracy" about what they say.

But it's the same familiar spirit that Paul cast out of the fortune teller girl; and like Satan himself, these spirits will always give themselves away at some point.

4. Supernatural signs. The shaking thing puzzled me the most in charismatic circles, because I knew the people it was happening to, and I also believe that the Holy Spirit is a spirit of self control, so He will never overpower a believer with a shaking or slain in the spirit thing.

So I looked it up in the Bible to see what it might mean on God's terms, when people start to shake in meetings.

Was shocked. The only place in the Bible where anyone shakes is Jeremiah. And he is shaking in his bones because he is horrified by being in the presence of evil false prophets. I truly believe this is a supernatural sign for believers to "get the H*** out" of these antiChrist prophetic meetings.

5. Dreams, visions, prophecies etc. The first thing we have to do is realize the Bible interprets itself. When God turns a phrase or uses a symbol (let's say "mud") you have to have faith that if God is giving you a dream about mud, mud will be interpreted in your dream in the same way it is used in the Bible. This is because God cannot contradict Himself.

If a dream or vision or prophesy is given, it will line up in these details with however these symbols or elements are used in the Word. (try the Lord in this, next time you have a perplexing dream. You will be amazed.)

6. Learning to recognize metaphor versus commonsense practice in the Bible. The most lamentable practice I've seen in charismatic churches is the employment of the words "I bind you Satan!" or "I bind the strongman of poverty" or some other such nonsense.

Binding and loosing has to do with the Jewish idea of spiritual authority. Moses had the power of binding and loosing when he judged the everyday problems of the Hebrews daily lives. Solomon had it. And Peter was given it (and so are we, when we are leaders in a church)... it means that you will be given the insight into what Heaven thinks on a matter, as Peter knew Ananias and Sapphiras lied to the Holy Spirit and died. "Binding the strongman or the strongest man in a house" is an apt metaphor that Jesus was employing to describe what happens when a spirit is rendered impotent by presence of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not doing justice to this problem but it doesn't mean that we are to pray "I bind the strongman of hate"... because Jesus just meant to show that His power takes care of the demonic.

FInally, charismatics pray about "strongholds" as mentioned by Paul "we are to pull down every stronghold, everything that resists the power of God"... They pray incorrectly thus: "I break this stronghold in the name of Jesus".

Well, that's just stupid. A stronghold is a set of wrong thinking, usually of unbelief or fear or doubt in an individual's life. So to "break it" by a shouted prayer is ridiculous. You must lovingly apply the Word in discussion with this person, to see if you might win them to Christ, because salvation comes through our minds, what we think and therefore what we believe of in Jesus.

My hands are getting tired if typing. But charismatics also don't realize that when John said "test the spirits my beloved... those who deny that Jesus came in the flesh are antichrist" charismatics will simply ask a person that is demonized "do you believe Jesus came in the flesh?" And if the person says yes, then they believe they have "tested the spirits".

This is most ridiculous, again. What John means, by testing, is that we put what the spirits are teaching theologically to the test of the Word, as did the Bereans.

But charismatics on the whole don't read the word. Too much into wanting to find Jesus put gemstones in their backyards.

I'm forgetting to test for flattering spirits in false prophecy. That's a good one.

Will come back later. GBU

113 posted on 04/18/2018 3:10:20 PM PDT by Sontagged (Lord Jesus, please frogmarch Your enemies behind You as You've promised in Your Word)
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To: Sontagged; Normandy; teppe; StormPrepper
(But then, that's the whole problem of the Book of Mormon! It sounds so Bible-ish.)

It ought to; considering how much of is actually FROM the KJV bible; errors and all!

155 posted on 04/19/2018 5:17:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Sontagged; teppe; Normandy; StormPrepper
(But then, that's the whole problem of the Book of Mormon! It sounds so Bible-ish.)

Not to worry; for GOD himself told Joseph Smith to CORRECT the bible; thus; the Inspired Version of Mormonism.


No Mormons seem to CARE that Salt Lake City does NOT use the corrected text from JS; but instead still uses the KJV...


8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
 
Articles of Faith
Mormon creed

158 posted on 04/19/2018 5:23:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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