Posted on 01/10/2018 12:13:36 PM PST by Jewbacca
Titus? The Roman general?
The Nazarene does not understand any of the historic relevance of the Talmud. Wash your hands and move on.
Without the Oral Law David is not Jewish. The scripture says no Moabite can enter into the Jewish faith. So how could Ruth ever have converted? No Oral Law (The Rabbis!!!) No Jewish Ruth, no Jewish David... No Bible (G-d forbid)
Blasphemy!!! Nimrod is a British reconnaissance aircraft!
To Brighten up the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTjw96-Z700&list=RDcTjw96-Z700
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzMZg-FPRK0
Very Funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qJRgbFeP6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9m5e-oPl5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aii3fDdZnrM
The bits with this superfluous details to Ruth’s story are hardly Scripture.
The problem with Harafu’s tale (Harafu being said to have been Oprah’s real name by these same rabbis).
First off, that a foreigner’s son would be married to a local princess ... but let us leave that aside as it’s not the real problem.
The problem in this tale if Goliath is to be Oprah’s son is her age when he was born so that he’s still in his prime when he dies. To allow it to even be possible, I’ll need here assume relatively younger ages rather than older.
For instance, the princess thing completely aside, if Elimelech’s boys were themselves not children when they entered Moab and were given wives closer their own age rather than younger, and therefore Ruth and Oprah become older, it becomes more of a problem for her being Goliath’s mom. The younger she is the less the problem. This still allows for the arranged marriage aspect of the story.
Naomi had been in Moab ten years before the deaths of her sons.
It is not recorded how long after this that she heard that there was again food in Israel but let us assume it was not long.
So assume both Ruth and Oprah were still young, no more than 15 or 16, both recent widows, only without children of their own (obviously), when Naomi set out to return.
This means that Ruth and Oprah should have easily been younger than 17 (even 16) when Obed was born.
Obed became the father of Jessie as well as Johnathan and possibly Nahash (both are at least listed as David’s uncles). There is no full listing of Obed’s sons in Scripture nor, obviously, the order they were born in. But for the best case scenario let him be no more than 20 when Jessie was born.
Ruth and Oprah are still as young as 35 to 40.
Jessie has 8 sons and an unknown number of daughters before David is born. It would not be unreasonable that he was in his young 30s when David was born. Just assume 30, it’s a nice round figure. With multiple wives you could easily drop 5 years off of that, so 25 on the low side.
That makes Ruth and Oprah as young as 60 to 70 when David is born.
David was a teenager when he faced off against Goliath. Only three of his brothers are old enough to be soldiers. Assume he’s 15-16.
This puts Ruth and Oprah as young as their mid 70s to mid 80s at that time.
Now, Goliath was an experienced warrior, as were his brothers, but the army of Israel wouldn’t have been cowed by a man well past his prime no matter how tall so it would be a stretch to say he was much past 35 at the time, which is a man still in his prime.
But no matter what, we are looking at a man who, were he Oprah’s kid, would have been born when she was 40 to about 50. The younger Goliath was the older she was when he was born. The older Goliath was the greater the likelihood he would be seen as someone beyond his prime and thus unable to browbeat the men of Israel. Even if Goliath were in his mid 40s that would still put Oprah in her early 30s when he was born (at the youngest).
Then there’s Goliath’s brothers ... do you think he was the youngest of them? If not poor Oprah is really pumping out kiddos (and likely BIG healthy babies too) rather late in life.
So apart from these personal slanders as you’ve mentioned (Oprah suddenly lacking in chaste morals of a proper princess) this story also has her having kids well past normal child bearing ages and that after a hard life a whoring ... something that seems rather unlikely.
Either Oprah is too old or Goliath is too old (or even both are somewhat too old).
So which is more likely? That or TWO girls with the same or similar names? One that knew Naomi and a second younger woman that was Goliath’s mom?
Finally, Oprah’s asserted death. Do you imagine Harafu was actively quizzed about her own family and personal life before she died trying to defend her last son?
The only persons who could personally recognize her as their Oprah would have been Naomi and Ruth and they wouldn’t have been there even if they were still alive (which was certainly possible, more so for Ruth).
I just posted some comments relating to a problem with Oprah’s age when she would have given birth to Goliath.
I find it far more reasonable to assert that some other younger woman with the same or similar name was Goliath’s mother.
Your lost in weeds of delusion.
Ruth is Scripture.
The tradition isn’t.
I could say something similar to the Mormon as I could to the Muslim as both make a similar claim about the truth being corrupted that a new revelation was necessary.
This is not a problem that Christians generally have. Even those who have adopted a form of extra-Scripture traditionalism of their own do not maintain that the Gospel and Hebrew Scriptures has been either disrupted or is somehow fundamentally altered.
As for traditions, there is a difference between Scripture and traditions that have been added to it, often long after the fact. Indeed, to this day there is a whole branch of Judaism known as the Karaites that dispute the propriety of writing down and subsequently elevating the traditions.
The kararites started in ~750 CE with the sponsorship of the Muslim Caliphate to make it easier to convert ignorant Jews to Islam.
Hardly a reliable group.
The new seeks to replace the old. The thrust is the same regardless of the claim on the “old.” Claim it’s corrupted, claim it’s not-fully-revealed (claim some have scales over their eyes,) but no one disputes the veracity of the Jewish Bible. Everything else is addenda, is it not?
You must not have read the Tanukah. Heaven, eternal life, angels etc. are clearly in it. All these major Christian doctrines are completely supported, written about in the Tanukah. I suggest you read it if you haven't, and if you have, please read it again.
Your post couldn’t be more wrong about my position if you tried.
Bellflower, so you’re telling a Jewish Israeli who I happen to know went to Yeshiva and probably has a giant bulk of the Tanakh and Talmud memorized — in Hebrew — and wrote out, by hand, at least one book — in Hebrew — he needs to read the Tanakh?
No, but perhaps you do. The “old” testament (the Tanakh) is but a fraction of the scriptures. Sure, certain things like eternal life and whatnot are alluded to. But the actual doctrines are contained in the TALMUD, the oral law.
This was why the Sadducee (who were “Sad, you see”) did not believe in resurrection — they rejected the Talmud and relied only on the Tanakh (or even just the Torah — the first books -— depending on which sect)
This conflict is written about extensively in your religions own additions to the Jewish scriptures, with your messiah coming out squarely on the side of the authority of the oral law.
It sounds like you are the one who needs a refresher.
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
I Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
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Jesus Christ used a Scripture out of the Tanakh, a revelation from our Holy God speaking forth from the burning bush to Moses, to support His overriding belief in the resurrection, and the fact that people continue to exist after death:
Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
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