Posted on 09/01/2017 11:30:26 AM PDT by StormPrepper
First off let me state for the record as a courtesy, so that you can decide if you want to keep reading, I'm a Latter-day Saint. But, I was raised as -and was baptized into a Southern Baptist church at the age of 15. So I'm very aware of the teaching of the Rapture. My great grand father had this awesome painting of Christ coming in a cloud over a small town and people were rising to meet Him. I used to sit and stare at that painting for hours marveling at the scene.
I now know that the Rapture as taught to me by the many Sunday school teachers and preachers as well meaning as they might have been, were wrong.
The Rapture doctrine is the belief that Christ will return before the great tribulation period and take all of the "saved" people to heaven before the destruction begins. The problem is like, well all of the conclusions arrived at by modern "Christian" thinking it lacks all the pieces to completely understand what is promised to happen in the last days by God.
Many people believe that they will not have to endure the suffering that is about to over take the world and as a result are not preparing.
Luke 21 should be everyone's guide as to future events and it's intensity.
The Lord starts out prophesying to the disciples that are with him about things to come.
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
The temple will be destroyed. The Lord making this pronouncement worried them and they asked:
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
The Lord says basically when you see these signs that are very scary, don't be frightened, it's all known to God. It's calculated. It's part of the plan. The Lord doesn't mean that He's causing this, evil mean making bad choices are causing this, but God knows everything that's going to happen.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
When I think of kingdom, it says to me that the Lord is referring to like minded people or allies. For example the world wars, Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf Wars. And the thousands of smaller skirmishes all over the world.
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
The whole world will be in commotion. And it will be scary. All of this is done to try to humble the people of the earth and try to make them repent and seek after God. Repent and be righteous. So that at the judgement God can say, I did everything I could do to recover you, I gave you ever chance, I shook the whole world for your sake.
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Notice that during all of this, the Lord says, "when ye shall see...". Through all that you'll be here to see. You'll be on the earth when the desolation starts.
21 Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
What the Lord is referring to is the gathering of His people. Leave to where the Lord shall direct you. And here's something interesting, the Lord is going to restrict access to this place. I'm sure this goes hand in hand with Rev 11. My own feeling is that this what the two prophets spoken of in Rev 11 are doing. They are working to gather the Lord's people and their prophecy is the destruction that is coming if they stay. Just a thought that seems to fit pretty well.
25 ¶ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The great desolation. He means it's going to be really really bad.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Well, you can't very well look up if you're already in heaven.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Pray that you will be found worthy to not be destroyed in the great desolation. Another way to say this is, you need to be found worthy to stand in holy places. The Lord's return is the end of the tribulation not the beginning of it.
-Stourme
Well there are three theories: Pre, Mid, and Post so I guess it’s what verses you want to use to prove which will happen. As far as I’m concerned is not when He comes is >that< He comes.
Kinda funny for a Mormon to be critiquing past or current Christian theology. If you are all about finding doctrinal errors in past teachings in your church we could be here all day and night.
More importantly, you’re in a cult.
“Well, you can’t very well look up if you’re already in heaven.”
Sure you can. Just study Ephesians.
You are applying verses that are to the Jews only, not the church.
There is no “Rapture”.
There is only the Second Coming of Christ.
Don’t bother me with the nonsense about, “but his feet won’t touch the ground”.
David Currie taught the “Rapture” for over 10 years before concluding he was in error and later writing:
“Rapture - The End-Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind”
Yes, there is no “rapture” before Christ’s return at the second coming, which is at the very end of the tribulation, along with the first resurrection of the dead. It seems to me the theory is so popular because of wishful thinking; it appeals to people to believe they won’t have to worry about living through such difficult times. However, the Bible instead counsels Christians to be prepared for difficulties, and that God will strengthen us to get through them.
Those verses are from Christ talking to his disciples, who were Christians and he keeps saying “you”, “you”, “you”, not “them”, “them”, “them”, so I don’t see much basis for that argument.
I have heard all three preached, and witnessed it tear churches up. I thought the behavior to be really stupid. The point of it all is to be saved and ready regardless of which doctrine plays out. If you are saved why do you care? Is it not more important to see souls saved than debate doctrine?
Personally I guess I don’t fall in the millennialist view at all. I believe when Christ returns, it’s all over and done with.
Hmm... lets see here...
The serpent tells Adam & Eve “You can be like God if you eat this fruit”
Consequence: Mankind falls from grace and is cast out of Eden.
Fast forward to early America:
An angel of light tells Joseph Smith “You can be like God if you follow all His commands”
What’s the difference???
a: we cannot follow All of His commands.
q: Who was Joseph Smith REALLY talking to?
If you are all about finding doctrinal errors in past teachings in your church we could be here all day and night.
More importantly, you’re in a cult.
There is no “Rapture”.
First off, pay no attention to those who think they can judge your state of salvation. The Apostle Paul dealt with this in several of his Letters. Thinking that one can tell the difference between good and evil without the Word of YHWH is, after all, the original sin.
A lot of what Jesus said pointed to Old Testament prophecy. For example: when He said “My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?” He was pointing to Psalm 22 which was a prophecy of what had just happened.
So when Jesus walked on the water, He was pointing to the Book of Daniel where there was a man on the waters who related or controlled the release of prophecies about the end times. One of these says that “the daily” will be taken away 1290 days before the “abomination that causes desolation” is set up. Could “the daily” be the people who watch and pray daily for Jesus’ return?
The other meme pervading the Scriptures is “the woman’s travail in childbirth”. It starts in Genesis 3 and ends with Revelation 12. Isaiah 66 has a strange set of verses that talk about her giving birth before she goes into labor. Could all of this be pointing to the Revelation 12:1-2 sign that will only happen on the morning of September 23, 2017 before the start of the Time of Jacob’s Trouble?
In three weeks we will know the answer. Maranatha!
To be blunt, your confusing the Great Tribulation in those verses to the Rapture.
For the Rapture, please refer to these - and if you don’t believe in it fine - but don’t call God a liar either. His promises are as good today as they were before the Earth was formed.
Matthew 24:37-39
Luke 17:26-30
John 14:3
And for those who want more proof please read the following:
http://www.raptureready.com/2016/07/19/defending-the-pre-trib-rapture/
This sick lie that has been spilling out over the last 30 years or so that Darby invented the Rapture is nothing but Liberal/Revisionist nonsense. Even early Church Elders such as Polycarp, Irenaeus, Cyprian, & Ephraim believed in it too.
So should all Saved Christians who look up to Jesus for their redemption and eternity.
I disagree strongly with your current religious affiliation, but I appreciate your well-reasoned post. The last time a couple of your compatriots came knocking, we had a respectful conversation and I commended their zeal, however adding that we must ensure that our zeal “is according to the truth.”
No, he’s actually going back & forth between talking to the Church and then to Jews.
Here’s my challenge to you:
Find a mention of the Church after Revelation 4 being on Earth in the entire book of Revelation.
If you can’t, then why not?
Million $ Question...
Exactly right!
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