Posted on 08/19/2017 4:40:33 PM PDT by grumpa
“For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will be the COMING of the Son of Man. . . . the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. . . . and they will see the Son of Man COMING on the CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory. . . . Truly, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Matthew 24:27-34)
Matthew 24 is packed with prophetic imagery. Included in this imagery are CLOUDS and cosmic disturbances. People who are not familiar with biblical imagery assume that such language is literal. When Jesus comes again He will literally appear riding a cloud (on a white horse per Revelation 19).
I dare say that not one Christian in a hundred understands the Old Testament context of New Testament prophecy. While this is startling to most evangelicals, there is overwhelming evidence that this happened at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70—in a non-literal way. This is the preterist view of eschatology.
The nature of the Second Coming is in part determined by its timing. Jesus promised that all such prophecies would happen in his generation (Matthew 24:34). There are over 100 passages in the New Testament that affirm this time constraint (“must shortly take place,” “about to happen,” “before some standing here taste death,” “soon,” etc.) Consider Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28; 23:29-39; 26:64; Luke 21:22; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-10; etc.
In the Old Testament, CLOUDS are used symbolically to portray God’s presence, judgment, or proclamation. People did not see God literally, but saw what He did or perceived his presence in other ways. Consider the following passage excerpts, where clouds are God’s FIGURATIVE abode or mode of travel. Often this is about God’s judgment on groups of people:
“The Lord descended in a CLOUD and stood with him there . . .” (Exodus 34:5-7)
“He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him, thick CLOUDS dark with water. . . and the foundations of the world were laid bare.” (Psalm 18:4-15, judgment against David’s enemies)
“And the Lord is riding on a swift CLOUD and comes to Egypt, and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence. . . .” (Isaiah 19:1-15, judgment against Egypt)
Now take a minute to look up these additional passages: Exodus 13:21; 16:10; 19:9; 33:9; Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 9:15-22; 11:25; Deuteronomy 4:11; 5:22; 31:15; 2 Samuel 22:8-15; 1 Kings 8:10-11; 2 Chronicles 5:14; Psalm 97:2-5; 104:3; Jeremiah 4:13; Ezekiel 1:4, 27-28; 10:3-4, 18-19; 30:3, 18-19; Daniel 7:13-14; Joel 2:1-2; Nahum 1:2-6; Zephaniah 1:14-15.
Jesus in the Olivet Discourse was claiming deity when He spoke of himself as “coming on clouds.” So, when we read Matthew 24, in light of this Old Testament language, we understand that Jesus’ Second Coming was a “coming in judgment” upon Israel, expressed in highly figurative, but common Hebraic apocalyptic language. His Second Coming is specifically tied to the destruction of the temple in Matthew 24:2-3.
In addition to the cloud language we see other astronomical perturbations associated with Jesus’ presence in judgment—sun darkened, stars falling, heaven shaken. This too is Old Testament imagery describing God’s “coming” in judgment. No one actually saw God, but certainly saw the EFFECTS of his judgment.
In AD 70, God used the Roman army as his instrument to punish apostate Israel. This coming/presence in judgment of Jesus in AD 70 was similar to Yahweh’s previous judgments against his enemies on multiple occasions in the Old Testament, most of which are accepted by scholars as having been fulfilled in the past.
Compare the similar language of cosmic disturbances in Matthew 24:27-31 with these Old Testament judgment passages: Isaiah 13:10-13 (against Babylon), Isaiah 34:4-10 (against Edom), Jeremiah 4:23-31 (against Judah and Jerusalem), Ezekiel 32:7-8 (against Pharaoh and Egypt), Joel 3:15-16 (against the nations), Amos 5:20, 8:9 (against Israel), Micah 1:2-16 (against Israel and Judah), Zephaniah 1:14-18 (against Judah, Jerusalem, and Judah’s enemies).
The New Testament writers emphatically taught that Jesus would return while many of his contemporaries were still alive (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8; Hebrews 1:2; 10:37; James 5:7-9; 1 Peter 1:13-20; 2 Peter 3:9-12; 1 John 1:18; etc.). Where did they get this? From Jesus himself, of course. I, for one, believe that Jesus fulfilled his promises in exactly the time and nature that He predicted. If He did not, He was a false prophet.
https://prophecyquestions.com/2014/02/01/articles-by-charles-meek
Interesting..
Yeah, seen this stuff before. You might try Topcat54 and friends,
I thought you may have.
I am not familiar with Charles S. Meek, which surprises me. But ok, I can’t say I have read ALL material out there.
Do you have a bio on Charles S. Meek? I would like to check on him.
Thanks
Thanks for the Topcat54 reference.
He has an interesting FR homepage. Even referencing Bahnsen right on the top.
Cheers! and Blessings!
So i guess if all prophecy was fulfilled around 70 A.D. then we have no prophetic guide for the present day, according to the preterist view. I do not believe this.
” if all prophecy was fulfilled around 70 A.D. then we have no prophetic guide for the present day, according to the preterist view. I do not believe this.”
I don’t know where Charles Meek or grumpa view is on this.
But the classic historical postmil view does not believe that ALL prophecy was fulfilled around 70 A.D.
If the Second Coming was in 70 A.D. that means we’ve just been taking up space and praying to a god that doesn’t exist. And waiting for nothing to happen. That’s very disappointing.
I’ve always believed that without a religious belief in treating your fellow man with love and respect slaughter would be an everyday occurrence. We’re getting to that point.
Please - do not dismiss too quickly.
You are partially correct - we have no prophetic guide. What we have is the Holy Spirit - in a personal way they never had. List to Him! This is the New Age - the Age of total re-conciliation between God and Man - through the sacrifice of Jesus! He came for nothing less - experience it - enjoy it - LIFE it!
Meek bio at amazon.com. Search for name or book Christian Hope through Fulfilled Prophecy.
“Meek bio at amazon.com. Search for name or book Christian Hope through Fulfilled Prophecy.”
I did a thorough search. Nothing came up. Kind of surprised me. Even on Amazon. I must be missing something.
So, if X will commit a murder on a cloudy holiday and there is a cloudy holiday, does that absolutely mean X will commit his murder on that particular cloudy holiday?
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John chapter 14.
He has gone (somewhere else - Father’s house).
To prepare a place for us -His bride.
He will come again (here)
And receive (take) us
That where He is, we can be also.
I believe firmly that we are the generation that will experience this joy.
Peace
Why would you be the generation as opposed to one of the other ones?
I’m just being trolled, that’s all.
Including you Charles ...
Daniel 7:13 is the clear background for the coming on the clouds of Matt. 24 ... as is the abomination of desolation a reference to Dan 9.
Preterism is merely the hyper application of allegory to appease liberal scholars who claim Jesus had to mean 40+ years when He said 'this generation' ...
It is an eschatological view that stands or falls on WHEN the book of Revelation was written.
Look inside the book at the preface:
Perfect.
Thanks.
Looks good.
quote-Why would you be the generation as opposed to one of the other ones?
dwilkins, A couple references to ‘about 2,000’ in the scriptures may clue one in.
If historians are correct, we’ve had ‘about 2,000’ years since His Resurrection. Some say AD 30,31,32,33 somewhere around there.
There was ‘about 2,000’ cubits of space between Israel and the ark of the covenant when they were crossing the Jordan River into the ‘Promised Land’.
They were commanded to stay away from the ark, by a distance of about 2,000 cubits.
A new testament reference:
There was also ‘about 2,000 swine’ that had the demons enter them and lead them down to the sea where they drowned.
Again, the world has experienced ‘about 2,000’ years since His resurrection.
And everybody’s died. nobody has ascended alive- no one has entered the Promised Land (eternal life with no dying)
Another thing- His Word says 1,000 years is as a day and a day is 1,000 years to Him.
By that count, He’s only been gone ‘2’ days-
If He comes back the 3rd Day- That’s still soon- by how He counts.
There are also hints in His Sky- at His Feasts that can tell people where we’re at..
All for His Glory!
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