While I agree with this, mostly, I have to ask the obvious question - what was Jesus’ first recorded miracle? And what was the quality of the miracle?
In answer to the original question: yes.
While I find responsible imbibing to be ok (Jesus DID drink wine), I agree that letting it get out of control skirts the issue to if a member of clergy can carry out their function as a faith leader, if their minds are clouded by alcohol.
Is this attitude about alcohol common in Protestant circles? Is tee-totaling or something very like it expected of evangelicals?
Paul is pretty clear about alcohol consumption in Romans. If you are drinking in front of a weaker brother that thinks it’s a sin, then you should not do it.
However, he says the same thing about eating meat.
So, weaker brothers leave us unable to live in freedom, though we can. Paul says it is permissible, but not always profitable.
So I do my drinking at home or when around non-believers. And being in a band that sometimes plays in bars, I may be in a bar but not drinking alcohol. Go where the sinners are. I have some very good discussions in some of those bars.
We assume that the alcohol content today is the same as in Jesus’ day. In His day, a little water was often placed into the wine and thus decreased the alcohol content (cf. 1 Timothy 5:23) ... much like an O’douls today.
I left one of the baptist churches where I currently live because of the insistence of clinging to such tripe.
The issue is getting drunk, not having a drink.
There are three truths in life:
Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader
of the Christian faith.
Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.
Ephesians 5:17-20
18 ...and be ye not drunk with wine wherein is dissipation...
It’s about volition, appreciation, and responsibility.
.02
YMMV
KYPD
“Consider the following:”
Yes, lets.
- Christ’s first public miracle was creating wine for the more inebriated end of a party.
- Christ, and Scripture in general, frequently uses wine and the production thereof as positive analogies/metaphors for spirituality.
- The prescribed sacrament of Communion has wine as a central element. (Having grown up with grape juice as an element, and switched to real wine as element shortly after giving up being a teetotaler, I can assure you there is an objective difference in the experience of partaking.)
- As weak as the wine in question allegedly was, it was still wine; being a critical source of disease-free water, consumption surely was at volumes that more than made up for the low alcohol ratio.
- On that note, as weak as daily wine may have been, that produced in the miracle was surely “high octane stuff” - otherwise those imbibing it would not have expressed such positive reviews thereof.
We get it.
Don’t get drunk - that leads to sin.
But in downplaying the value of alcoholic beverages, don’t be so darned cherry-picking about it: Scripture is loaded with analogies, metaphors, parables, and outright recommendation & expectation of consuming alcohol in moderation (to wit 1-3 oz ethanol per day). Don’t get carried away with bashing that which God Himself made for us to enjoy.
Why don’t you invite a Mormon to go fishing? He’ll drink all the beer.
How do you keep the Mormon from drinking all the beer? Invite another Mormon.
Lol... when I got married I had to “convert” to marry my Catholic, at that time, Wife.
I had to “give” something to the church... and a bottle of scotch to the priest...
To answer the question...I sure hope so! He and I have had a beer together on several occasions!
The Scriptures are pretty clear that consuming alcohol IN EXCESS is bad.
Mmmm beer
I completely disagree, both from scripture and from life/parenting.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=wine&qs_version=NIV
Wine is mentioned many times in the Bible, both positively and negatively.
Genesis 19:32
Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
Genesis 27:28
May God give you heaven’s dew and earth’s richness— an abundance of grain and new wine.
Numbers 15:5
With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.
Deuteronomy 33:28
So Israel will live in safety; Jacob will dwell secure in a land of grain and new wine, where the heavens drop dew.
2 Samuel 13:28
Absalom ordered his men, “Listen! When Amnon is in high spirits from drinking wine and I say to you, ‘Strike Amnon down,’ then kill him. Don’t be afraid. Haven’t I given you this order? Be strong and brave.”
Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.
John 2:9-10
and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
Romans 14:21
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
1 Timothy 3:8
In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
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As I read scripture, wine is one of life’s joys. The error and sin are in “much wine”.
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As a parent, I did not want alcohol to be “forbidden” and thus tempting. Instead, I allowed my children to drink at home if they wished - and I modeled very limited, controlled drinking. They tried it a few times, but not very much, just enough to not be very curious about drinking when they grew up. As far as I know none of them have been drunk. They learned to drink responsibly, both as I modeled it at home and as they experimented at home. It’s easy to control your drinking if you have a safe place to try it and learn that it’s no big deal away from peer pressure.
For ministers? I approve of limited, controlled drinking, even (especially?) in public, at least if they can drink responsibly. It’s good for their followers to see a responsible alternative to drinking to get as drunk as possible, as quickly as possible.
Only if there isn’t any good free wine for them!
Yes to the question. Technically.
But it isn’t wise.
God invented beer so we Irish would not conquer the world.
An equally provocative and not-facetious question might be, “How great is the scourge of obesity, brought on by the sin of gluttony, to which many a church pot-luck super has contributed?” Given the rampage of obesity driven diabetes in our culture, perhaps preachers should also integrate exhortations on dietary moderation into their sermons.