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To: Petrosius; aMorePerfectUnion
Israel participates in the sacrifice of the altar by eating the meat of the sacrifice. Likewise, the pagans participate with demons by eating the meat offered in pagan sacrifices. So to participate in the Body and Blood of Christ we must eat of the sacrifice of our Lord. And how can we do that if we are not presented with the actual Body and Blood of Christ offered in sacrifice?

Israel ate the meat of the sacrificed LAMB. Christians eat the bread and drink the wine as Jesus gave us to do in remembrance of His body and blood sacrifice. It really amazes me how vehemently Catholics argue for what they are taught but never think it through for themselves. That wafer of the Eucharist NEVER changes, does it? You can claim it literally or mystically does, but there is no change even on a subatomic level. In fact, the dogma of "transubstantiation" was developed much later (this doctrine was made obligatory by the Fourth Council of the Lateran in 1215).

Before then, Christians held that Christ was symbolically present with those gathered together in His name and the bread and wine of the observance represented His body and blood sacrificed for us. The "real presence" of Christ was a hotly debated topic much later in Christianity (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_presence_of_Christ_in_the_Eucharist).

What Catholicism teaches today was not what Christians have believed always, everywhere and by all. What matters is that the person who participates in the ordinance together with other believers is doing so in faith.

975 posted on 07/23/2017 7:22:12 PM PDT by boatbums (The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages.)
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To: boatbums

And this is why I don’t like when threads turn into this, heh...

Total aside, not attacking you of course.

But it’s VERY difficult to try to argue in favor of the Lutheran position/what I believe without either A: getting lumped in with the non-Biblical Catholic understanding of the Lord’s Supper, or B: Getting lumped in with what I don’t believe on the other side.

And the tendency of some Catholic posters around to try to do the ‘let’s you and him fight’ thing or just be unbearably smug when we non-Caths debate makes me want to avoid trying to talk about it at all.


979 posted on 07/23/2017 8:09:26 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: boatbums; Petrosius; aMorePerfectUnion
The real presence of Jesus is this.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

The believer already has Christ living in them. They don't need to eat Jesus to have that happen.

Physical eating does not make spiritual reality happen.

986 posted on 07/23/2017 10:19:00 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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