“the seals, trumpets and bowls do not belong on the same timeline”
That’s not quite what I meant. I meant that each group of seven are respectively in a sequential order. They are numbered one through seven because they take place in that order with respect to the others within each list of seven. For example, seal number 2 must take place after seal number 1.
“The perspective has changed to a separate group who believe in The Lamb of God.”
Chapter 12 has indeed been a pivotal chapter in the discussion of the timing of the rapture. The main proponent of the pre-trib view in modern times (as it never was a traditional systematic teaching in any historical documents) was J. N. Darby. He apparently thought the child symbol in this chapter is symbolic of the church which is caught up to God before the tribulation. Or at least that is my understanding of his position.
It appears that the heavenly sign which is described in this chapter is to take place in a couple of months. There is some debate as to whether or not this is THE fulfillment of that sign, but I find the arguments for it to be compelling. I am not confident in the meaning of the symbols, but I do lean toward the woman representing Israel.
“This revelation of God dealing with the earth dwellers left behind is what triggers so many to heed the evangelism of the 144,000 JEWSIH evangelists, and thus be slaughtered and end up in Heaven for the Wedding Feast of the Bride and Bridegroom.”
It is interesting that you think the multitude gets to Heaven by dying. While the passage does not specifically say how they got to Heaven, it certainly does not exclude the possibility of their being raptured saints. Somehow they got from earth during the Great Tribulation to Heaven. But I also want to point out the contrast between this group and the “souls” under the altar in chapter 6. In chapter 7 the multitude is not described as made up of souls. They have hands with palm branches in them. While I don’t want to read too much into these descriptions, there is nothing inconsistent with their being raptured saints who have been clothed upon with their new bodies. And keep in mind that those who were slain in chapter 6 had not yet been avenged. This vengeance seems to begin in chapter 8. And all of these things are entirely consistent with my description of 1 Thessalonians 1 where Christ gives the persecuted church respite at His return and judgments of fire as vengeance upon the persecutors.
It is reasonable to believe that Christians will continue to endure persecution and martyrdom right up until the moment of Christ’s return. So, if this persecution takes place within the Great Tribulation it would be consistent for there to be a gathering of saints, both martyred and raptured in Heaven who could be described as having come out of the Great Tribulation. And the judgments of fire that follow beginning in chapter 8 would match as well.
“I will confess I do not believe the Tribulation is not the wrath of God upon the Earth for the white horse rider with a bow and no arrows is anti-Christ. He is revealed as a false Christ. And the Tribulation begins with a catastrophe then the anti-chrsit brings peace to a devastated world...”
The idea that the antichrist rises to power because of the rapture seems odd without any mention of it here. John says there are many antichrists now and that the spirit of antichrist is already at work. And that was his description centuries ago. God’s wrath is pictured for us in the flood of Noah and the destruction of Sodom. With Noah, Enoch was taken out of this world just before the flood. And Noah and his family were preserved through it. In Sodom, Lot and his family were led out of the place before the fire rained down and destroyed the cities. But look at Revelation 6 and 7. In chapter 6 there is no group of people who are excluded from these events. There are no sealed who escape. There are those who are martyred for their Christian faith. But no group is excluded. Yet, beginning in chapter 7 there is a group that is sealed and protected from the events that follow. Doesn’t that illustrate a distinction between the events in chapter 6? If the events in chapter 6 are part of God’s wrath, how are there followers of Christ in that time who are martyred for their faith? Why are they experiencing God’s wrath through the devastation of war, famine, disease, and persecution? Unless, maybe these are not God’s wrath.
Regardless, it is very important that Christians recognize that a life without tribulation or persecution is NOT a normative condition for the Church. Down through history, Christians have always suffered these things. Jesus told us to expect them. Even if it is possible that the rapture will take the church out before the time I am expecting, the possibility of a time of great suffering and distress are a reality for us. In fact, for many Christians that reality is here today and has been going on for generations.
Regardless of our conclusions about the timing of Christ’s return, it is important to balance the commands to “watch and be ready” with those that tell us to “wait patiently” for Christ’s return. We need to be ready for His return right now. But we need to be able to endure if His return takes place much later than we anticipate.
Amen and amen: “We need to be ready for His return right now. But we need to be able to endure if His return takes place much later than we anticipate.”