Cardinal Schönborn Reviles Saint Pius V as an "Anti-Semite”

Gloria TV ^ | 6/11/2017 | Gloria TV

[ebb tide]

Cardinal Schönborn Reviles Saint Pius V as an "Anti-Semite”

There were anti-Semites in the Catholic Church “including the canonized Pope Pius V (1504-1572)”, Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schönborn said on Friday during a discussion with Protestant bishop Michael Bünker in church Sankt Leopold in Vienna, "kathpress.at" reports.

According to "kathpress.at" Schönborn said: "On the Catholic side, too, there were great antisemites and persecutors of the Jews, including the canonized Pope Pius V."

Talking about the alleged dark side of the Church makes more cautious when judging Islam, Schönborn added. According to him Catholics “live in a glass house” and “shouldn’t throw stones”.

[af_vet_1981]

I’m sorry that this antisemitic thread has popped up on the RF and humbly ask the RM to remove it as it is a stain on both the Christian message and on Free Republic. I ask you to forgive them for they know not what they do.

[Phinneous]

I forgot to add BibleBelievers.org.au to the list at the beginning of last post of distorters. Why do you go to a site that limits Jesus’ visage to just one handsome brown-haired man?

This is the paragraph to bring peace to your tumultuous, if not creative mind:

Source, which refutes your self-hating non-religious Jew source’s intentionally-shocking rendering of the Talmud which neither he nor you understand in context, metaphor, or 2017 application to the modern day orthodox Jew whom you’ve never met (http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Judaism/Ask-the-Rabbi-May-Jews-save-all-lives-on-Shabbat)

QUOTE:

Recent scholars, however, have pointed to the 13th-century commentary of Rabbi Menahem Hame’iri, who contended that the Talmudic failure to apply the dispensation to save the lives of gentiles only applied in ancient societies where the non- Jewish majority regularly abused its Jewish inhabitants. In cultures where the larger population acts on ethical principles, no distinction is made between saving the life of a Jew and that of a gentile. In the words of Rabbi Nahum Rabinovitch, “Compassion and mercy for all men are the mark of the Jew, just as they are of God.”

ENDQUOTE

And on and on. What you dig up as Shocking revelations of the Talmud’s hatred to goyim are all, every one, taken out of context of the time in which they were written (grave bodily danger toward any stray Jew,) deliberately strong words to keep a separation between the Jews and the gentiles, or mystical/poetic/metaphoric (fantastical stuff, including the phoenix, the leviathan, unicorns, and frogs swallowing whole cities....is it relevant to your modern relationship to your orthodox Jewish neighbor? No.)

There are a thousand super-sleuth Christians who have created anti-semitic sites like these (another for you, BE SURE to read the second comment in the comments section which provides fine context and rebuttal to the screed in the body of the post:
http://rense.com/general86/talmd.htm)

Again, the point is, from the beginnings of the organized church to the 17th century (and in blood libels up until the 1900s) Jews were tortured and murdered for their beliefs, not for their actions. (Way to gain friends and influence people!) Which you still won’t admit. FOR THEIR BELIEFS. Now, as for the matter of me going to hell, according to you.... what should I care what you believe will happen to me? (right answer) Kill Christian believers in the triune god? (wrong answer)

Post tons of counter missionary classes? (meh, tepid answer for FR. It’s a Christian’s world in here.) See you on the soapbox in Central Park.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Source, which refutes your self-hating non-religious Jew source’s intentionally-shocking rendering of the Talmud which neither he nor you understand in context, metaphor, or 2017 application to the modern day orthodox Jew whom you’ve never met

In fact, the article actually confirms everything I wrote, openly acknowledging the "failure" of the Talmud to permit the saving of Gentiles. Even the quote you provide admits this, albeit it tries to claim--without evidence--that in fact the Talmud only condemns saving non-Jews, from majority populations of non-Jews, who are persecuting Jews, even though the Talmud speaks only of subhuman heathens of every race and tribe. In fact, such a view contradicts the Talmud, since the Talmud actively warns against antagonizing the majority of the population. Therefore these instructions can only really apply when Jews are safe to behave in these ways. (Not to mention the view is abhorrent on its face, since it assumes that every Non-Jew from a majority population of persecutors, is also evil and thus should be permitted to kill indirectly or refuse to save--contrast with the Bible, from the OT down to the NT, which teaches a very different morality.)

Your article then goes into a discussion between Jewish religious scholars on how best to get around the Talmud's teachings on the matter. One of them is quite interesting. From your article:

"Be that as it may, Rabbi Moshe Sofer noted that the failure to save non-Jews would not only create enmity, but could also lead to gentiles refusing to treat Jews, or even to pogroms. As such, Jews must save the lives of all humans, even if it entails violating biblical prohibitions on Shabbat, because a lack of reciprocity endangers the Jewish community."

The justification here is not a moral one. Rabbi Sofer does not believe there is a moral reason to save Gentiles. He believes it should be done in order to protect Jews from persecution, because when people start thinking the Jews are an ethnocentric tribe that hates everybody, they come out of their houses and next thing you know, there's 20,000 dead Jews splayed out in the streets.

You will notice that the Talmud itself acknowledges this, as I just mentioned a moment before, and permits many such "exemptions" on the grounds of Jewish group interests, but not moral ones.

In any case, it appears you've failed spectacularly to demonstrate that me or Shahak misunderstand the Rabbanical teachings of the Talmud.

[Religion Moderator]

If you so not wish to debate on open threads perhaps you should only read and post on caucus threads.

[metmom]

My grandmother grew up in the old country, Ukraine, and there was a lot of animosity between the Jewish community and the villagers.

If what she told me was true, I can well believe it.

The problem is, when people act wrong, it besmirches the religion as well. Actions speak louder than words and what someone affiliated with a religion does, even if it’s in the name of that religion and even if it’s not taught by that religion, casts a bad light on everyone claiming that affiliation.

I don’t doubt there were wrongs done on both sides, but if every one keeps tabs and does the eye for an eye thing, it’s never going to end.

Plus, Christianity if about forgiveness. Jesus forgave those who crucified him as He was dying from the event.

Someone has to start somewhere.

[Phinneous]

You both misunderstand Judaism because you ascribe what you directly read in the Talmud to how Jews act and think today. Fall in my pool, I or any orthodox Jew would save you, even on the Sabbath.

A site which refutes all anti-semite website accusations against the Talmud and answers the classic Jew-baiting questions (why we let gentiles die, etc:) EVERY ONE of your deep-web searches is mistranslated or out of context. Otherwise what could you do, learn Hebrew and Aramaic and read the original for yourself?

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

And why do you do it (keep recycling anti-Talmud, anti-rabbi screed) despite what every orthodox FReeper has written to you? Because you’re an anti-semite? No, because you’re a nudnik. You got turned on to the anti-Talmud sites. It fits your beliefs nicely. (poor Jewish wretches— they need my sarcasm and bile! Halleluka!)

Hey, did you see what the Talmud says about people with faces made from loafs of bread? See— your funny points stick well.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

You both misunderstand Judaism because you ascribe what you directly read in the Talmud to how Jews act and think today.

In other words, me and Shahak were right about the Talmud, and there is no longer any sort of argument, though you weirdly contradict this statement in the rest of your post, and rave about anti-semitism and mistranslations or whatnot without any evidence. But as to whether there are Jews who still believe in the Talmud without making any creative interpretations to get around its hate, yes, there are quite a few Orthodox Jews, unfortunately. In fact, I have to say, I've never met a more passive aggressive, vile, and disgusting opponent on the internet than a religious Jew, except perhaps a Muslim (but the Muslim wasn't passive aggressive, since he told me from the start he would kill me during the end times battle--LOL). I'm sure there are some on this website of this sort, but they have the good sense not to alienate the entire forum. But where they are safe? The insults, deception, and ugliness are just awful. Judaism, I think, is on par with Mormonism or JWism.

[Phinneous]

Your revisionist world view is showing.

No one equates Judaism writ large with anything you ascribe to it. You find it by looking selectively at texts you or other non-orthodox Jews selectively take out of translation and context. Again, all of your agitprop is addressed here:

http://talmud.faithweb.com/

I was close to starting a daily post about each of these classic refutations....then I found it already addressed online concisely and for all non-Hebrew-Aramaic readers. Nice and clear. You and Shahak are wrong. There is/are no contradictions. Every classic anti-Talmud claim is bogus.

Does any FReeper want to publicly side with you? “Talmud-believing” “Orthodox” Jews, (same thing according to you) are passive aggressive and trick the world about our beliefs? No, we respect G-d’s creations and wish all non-Jews to simply believe in G-d alone. You label as vile any spoken wish for you to change your beliefs? will your orthodox Jewish neighbor smite you with his heavy copy of the Talmud?

You could say, “Fine, but if they were in power, like in the days of King David, peace be upon him, they’d all rise up and subdue the triunists (is that a word?)” There never was a time of murder by Jews and when Moshiach comes, the son of the line of David, G-d will sort the world out by beliefs. Won’t He? Wouldn’t you say the same exact thing? Of course you would— because you copy it from Judaism. Nothing new there.

So are you waiting patiently every day? Will you be right? I’ve never met a more stubborn and smarmy poster among the ranks of the Christian believers. Raise the banner of sarcasm, Christian soldier.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

There is/are no contradictions.

I like how you spend so much energy assailing arguments that have not been made.

Are you actually Jewish, by the way? Because your argumentation was in parts both incompetent and delusional. I expected much better, so it would make sense if maybe you were just a very recent Gentile convert.

[Phinneous]

You are clever. Like an evangelical Lex Luthor clever.

I’m sure if anyone sides with you in the future on FR they will be praying you keep the mania in check. (Though Angelfire appreciates all of you dubious qualities.)