It is the Decision of the Holy Spirit and Us – A Reflection on the Catholicity of the Early Church

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-17-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Grazzi!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Acknowledged leader of "Ekklesia" = Bishop

Catholic Church = he katholike ekklesia- = "Church as a whole" or "Universal Church"

Saint Ignatius of Antioch first used the term "Catholic Church" in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans around 100 AD.

The Popes during John's lifetime were:

• Simon Peter AD 33 - 67
• Linus AD 67 – 76
• Anáklitos (Klítos) AD 76 - 88
• Clemens AD 88 - 99

And no, John was not a Pope. John was the teacher of Polycarp who became Bishop of Smyrna, and Polycarp the teacher of Irenaeus who became Bishop of Lyons.

John was also the teacher of Ignatius, who was appointed by Saint Peter to be the Bishop of Antioch.

These are excellent examples of Apostolic Succession in he katholike ekklesia.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for those excellent quotes.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You have imputed to me attitudes and opinions that are not mine, and words I did not use, and imputed to the Catholic Church doctrines which are not hers.

This cannot be the basis for dialogue.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“You have imputed to me attitudes and opinions that are not mine, and words I did not use, and imputed to the Catholic Church doctrines which are not hers.”

I see your posts as a defense of whatever the Roman church teaches - as such, they are really not dialogue. They are an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Lately, these posts have incorporated very circular logic.

I believe there is little exaggeration in what I posted.

Can you point to something you find untrue?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Every sentence of this is false:

---

What does the Roman Catholic Rooster do in response to the rising Glory of God?

• He crows that he is responsible for everything, stealing God’s glory
• He crows about his chicken coup, instead of God himself
• He changes the sufficiency and totality of Christ’s payment for sin into a system of earned merits and purchased indulgences
• He claims he now owns all God’s unconditional promises to Abraham and his descendants
• He crows of the glory of Mary, instead of the glory of Messiah and God the Father Who sent Him to redeem mankind
• He claims he is the Greatest Rooster and superior to every other Rooster that God Raised up to His glory
• He claims credit for God’s inspired Words in every way
• He crows to roosters who are departed, instead of to the God who commands us to “come boldly into His presence.”
• In short, the Roman Catholic Rooster has crowed the opposite of all God has decreed and exalted himself pridefully to steal the glory of God.

---

It does not glorify God to make rash, false, ignorant statements about other Christians' beliefs.

I should not care so much about defamation of myself personally; but I lament that you have injured your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ; that you have damaged your own integrity by spreading slander; and that you have grieved Our Lord by these calumnies by which you perhaps tought you had served Him.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Every sentence of this is false:”

Every sentence reflects the catholic message on FR in thread after thread.

It’s been said that when you are part of a system, you cannot objectively assess that system, so either they are tone deaf to the message they continually pump out, or are unable to stand outside the Roman system long enough to see it objectively.

“and that you have grieved Our Lord by these calumnies by which you perhaps tought you had served Him.”

Sounds as if you are making this personal to me.

I deny your claims.

Rather the specified crowing steals God’s glory by making everything about the Roman Catholic Church and not His glory.

Yet they crow and crow on thread after thread - not about Christ and His glory and His salvation - but about the Catholic Church. If you cannot see that, there is a larger issue at stake.

I can only think that defenders of any and all teachings are totally blinded to the meaning of their bragging and to how they distort the Scriptures to try to justify their pre-belief. I’ll leave it to God to decide if the crowing and theft of glory grieves Him or not.

I assume they mean well.., but are indoctrinated against using their minds to seek truth and instead limit themselves instead to seeking confirmation of their bias.

I’ve noted that *posts* under your account these last 3-4 weeks have moved from a rational approach (I was used to seeing) to the most tortured logic and spinning that would make a dervish feel embarrassingly slow and uncoordinated.

[Mrs. Don-o]

OK. ‘Bye.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Every sentence reflects the catholic message on FR in thread after thread."

No, my friend: every sentence you wrote is a mocking, misshapen paraphrase--- or rather, a parody --- of something a Catholic FReeper wrote. Want to test the truth of this? Ask any Catholic if what you wrote --- the way you wrote it --- is what that particular Catholic believes, or what the Catholic Church teaches.

Your refutations will continue to be unpersuasive as long as what you're refuting is but a funhouse mirror distortion of what the Catholic Church teaches.

As such, it is an utter waste of your valuable time and effort; and the Catholics, unsurprisingly, cannot take it seriously.

You would use your time more productively, I think, if you would get a better balance of "ask" and "tell."

Don't TELL other people what THEY believe. ASK what they believe. And then ASK if your restatement of it, is a fair representation of what they said.

And what shall you tell? TELL what YOU believe. That might be of interest to some. It would be of interest to me.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

No, my friend: every sentence you wrote is a mocking, misshapen paraphrase--- or rather, a parody

Hence, the Roman Catholic Rooster.

I am using parody while making an important point.

But take any individual point and there is an underlying core of truth.

Let's take a quick look-see...

He crows that he is responsible for everything, stealing God’s glory

Your own posts claim that in every way, the Catholic Church is responsible for the Bible. Just look upthread.

He crows about his chicken coup, instead of God himself

Catholics on FR, as well as Mormons, love their beautiful churches and temples, and brag about them.

He changes the sufficiency and totality of Christ’s payment for sin into a system of earned merits and purchased indulgences

That Catholicism has embraced a system of sacramental merit and sold indulgences is undeniable.

He claims he now owns all God’s unconditional promises to Abraham and his descendants

Historically, the Roman Catholic Church has claimed its ecclesiastical structures are a fulfillment and replacement of Jewish ecclesiastical structures.

He crows of the glory of Mary, instead of the glory of Messiah and God the Father Who sent Him to redeem mankind

Only a Catholic can read a passage of Scripture about God's fulfillment of the prophecies of Messiah and coming redemption, and then make Mary the focus of the passage - and use it to go on to use it to make Mary into more than even God said. This steals His glory. Your posts have defended this action.

He claims he is the Greatest Rooster and superior to every other Rooster that God Raised up to His glory

Ah, ask the Orthodox Church about the Bishop of Rome's claim to universal jurisdiction - instead of an honorary position of first among equals.

He claims credit for God’s inspired Words in every way

Already covered this in regards to your own crowing upthread.

He crows to roosters who are departed, instead of to the God who commands us to “come boldly into His presence.”

Constant crowing to Mary and departed saints in pagan tradition, instead of to the Father, who calls Christians to come into His presence with boldness.

In short, the Roman Catholic Rooster has crowed the opposite of all God has decreed and exalted himself pridefully to steal the glory of God.

This is particularly sad in regards to sharing the Gospel with church members and the world. Job #1.

ASK what they believe. And then ASK if your restatement of it, is a fair representation of what they said.

Sadly, I've yet to meet a single Catholic that knows the Scriptures and knows how to handle them - and none that are objective anymore on FR. Instead of seeking truth, they are only on threads (seemingly) to defend what they were taught. Scriptures bounce off them like water off a duck.

There was one years ago, but he has passed on to glory. We used to be prayer partners.

All most Catholics know is what they were told.

Best to you.

[MHGinTN]

Can you name the year your religious org appropriated th EKKLESIA / Church to mean strictly the Roman dictating org. When did the meaning of EKKLESIA get mutated to mean the Catholic Org?

Your org is using 'Church' inappropriately to mean not the whole body of believers in Jesus as Savior but to mean the org which you serve.

[MHGinTN]

The more you rattle on the more I am worried that most Catholics are not in fact Christians since you pose another gospel, one of works and Nicolaitan orders, so if the major4ity of Catholics are in line with what you teach they are not following Gospel of Grace as Delivered. They are following your man-made organization not the Holy Spirit.

[Elsie]

Thank you for those excellent quotes.

Why; how kind of you!

Do you think they are correct?

[Elsie]

It does not glorify God to make rash, false, ignorant statements about other Christians' beliefs.

And yet Rome can put forward all kinds of 'facts' about Mary that appear NOWHERE in Scripture.

Does this kill kitties in your world?

---

... you have injured your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ; that you have damaged your own integrity by spreading slander; and that you have grieved Our Lord by these calumnies by which you perhaps tought you had served Him.

[Elsie]

No, my friend: every sentence you wrote is a mocking, misshapen paraphrase--- or rather, a parody --- of something a Catholic FReeper wrote.

How about a good mocking parody of the 'facts' about Mary that ROME has put out?

---

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[Elsie]

No, my friend: every sentence you wrote is a mocking, misshapen paraphrase--- or rather, a parody --- of something ...

---

Golly!

Stuff like that should be called out as being UN-Christian!

SHAME!!!

---

 

---

 

Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 

 

 

[mrobisr]

“The Church—Catholic from the start!”
RCC: pope unmarried
Peter: Married, Matthew 8:14
RCC: pope infallible
Peter: fallible @3, Matthew 14:30, Luke 22:60, Gal 2:11
RCC: infallible
Pope: John Paul II apologizes for the crimes of the RCC against Protestants and other groups it tried to exterminate, so either JPII was fallible or the other popes were fallible either way “the church” proved her fallibility
RCC: I have existed since the beginning and can’t error
Bible: Seven churches of Revelation are six protestant and one RCC which means that Protestantism has always existed (it has) or all seven were RCC and there is no such thing as infallibility as six of the seven had serious issues faith issues.

[mrobisr]

“The Popes during John’s lifetime were:”
Not according to real history as the Bishop of Rome didn’t demand his power until the 6th century.
4th century Patriarchs or bishops of their particular area ALL having equal power
Rome
Constantinople
Antioch
Jerusalem
Alexandria
590-604 Gregory I is regarded as the first pope
or if you cry enough I’ll let you have Leo I, 440-461, but it’s still a far cry from first or second century.

[Salvation]

** Seven churches of Revelation are six protestant and one RCC which means that Protestantism has always existed (it has) or all seven were RCC and there is no such thing as infallibility as six of the seven had serious issues faith issues.**

Where are you getting this mistaken information and trying to tell Catholics what to believe?

[mrobisr]

“Where are you getting this mistaken information”

LMBO... well it’s in the book of Revelation chapter 2-3.

“and trying to tell Catholics what to believe?”

I’m asking you a question was the Churches of Revelation RCC or Protestant?