Posted on 04/10/2017 6:40:46 PM PDT by fishtank
Evangelical Apologist Hank Hanegraaff Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy
Posted by: Rob Bowman
On Palm Sunday, April 9, 2017, Hank Hanegraaff formally joined the Orthodox Church. Since 1989 Hanegraaff has been the President of the Christian Research Institute (CRI) and (since ca. 1992) the host of CRI’s Bible Answer Man radio program.[1] Hank, his wife Kathy, and two of their twelve children were inducted by a sacramental rite called chrismation into the Orthodox faith at St. Nektarios Greek Orthodox Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, near where CRI is based. In chrismation, a baptized individual is anointed with oil in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[2]
(Excerpt) Read more at religiousresearcher.org ...
“Roman Catholicism cannot justify the worship of Mary...”
No anti-Catholic can justify why he would dishonestly say Catholics worship the Virgin Mary when they don’t.
“Making statues to pray to and bow down before is making idols.”
1) We don’t pray TO the statues nor does the Church ever teach anyone to do that.
2) Since the statue is not an idol for Christians, because we don’t worship it, then any bowing is not to the the statue. I kneel at Church. I’m not kneeling to the statues. I’m kneeling in prayer to God.
“And for your Bible comment, that’s laughable coming from a Catholic whose church brags on giving the world the Bible.”
All of your comments are laughable.
“And owning one isn’t printing one, in case that subtle distinction escaped your attention.”
A laughable comment since I said, “We have no record of God commanding Bibles to be printed. I bet you own one anyway” which doesn’t mean “owning one [is] printing one” but that Protestant anti-Catholics put great stock in owning (but sadly not understanding apparently) Bibles even though God never once commanded they be printed, sold, purchased, etc.
Stated for the reasons already noted. You may reject them but those involved in idolatry often cannot see the error of their ways.
Wow. I honestly don't know what to think of the apparent disdain some Roman Catholics have for the written Word they claim to have "given" to us.
Where your argument fails, again, is there are no prohibitions on owning a Bible.
There are however, prohibitions on idolatry.
The idols Catholics kneel before and pray to, the reliance upon "Mary" for salvation, the equating of "Mary" as Co-redemtrix, Mediatrix, the belief that wearing a piece of cloth can save you from the hell-fire, the false promises of the Rosary, all testify to the Roman Catholic worship of "Mary".
The whole field of Mariology is another extension of this worship of "Mary".
As the Scriptures are silent then any appeal to the ECFs is appealing to an opinion.
“You may reject them but those involved in idolatry often cannot see the error of their ways.”
Those involved in anti-Catholic bigotry often cannot see the error of their ways.
Strong's supposition is a common one, but not a correct one. According to your post for which this is a reply, Strong's Concordance says your theory is only a possible one.
Definition: a Nicolaitan, possibly a follower of Nicolaus (a heretic at Ephesus).
So what is this presumed Nicolaus doing at Ephesus, anyway? Duh.
Argue all you want, but in recommendation of what I said, there is no presence of a priestly class in any of the churches mentioned here, nor anywhere in any church of the New Testament, especially including that of the prototype, the one at Jerusalem. Government of churches exhibiting the New Testament model has been that of a plurality of spiritually mature elders, sometimes with a "first-among-equals" overseer to manage the affairs of the local church full-time.
The "Nicolaitanism is a cult" interpretation has its error built right into it that defeats it. That defense, as you show, was created by the very class of clergy it was determinedly meant to forestall--the clergy class that high-jacked the churches away from the ordinary constituents, and has done just what the Jewish priests did: used it to manipulate their masses for power and riches by becoming the religious organ of the politicians.
The priests and their sycophants were the enemies of The Christ, and had Him crucified. Is it nothing for you to misinterpret Rev. 2:6 so as to escape the consequences laid up for the false priest class?
Peter laid out who the real priests were to be, and still are:
"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. . . .
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness
into his marvellous light: . . ." (1 Peter 2:5,9 AV).
The churches belong to the true priesthood, which is the sum of the ordinary regenerated believer-disciple constituents, not to a falsely established Nicolaitan priesthood. This priestly class has robbed the other members of their priestly prerogatives and functions.
But probably the strongest proof of all is that not one of the Apostles occupied or recommended the role or elevation of priesthood in the local church, nor did they establish a training institute for such a vocation. Their model of spiritual development was the one in which their own fitness for service came about under tutleage by Jesus, and that is the one-on-one teaching of a new disciple by another that has reached sufficient maturity, but within the framework of the local assembly. Their own forging was unique in that their instructor was God-in-Christ Himself, and that within the circle of Christ-chosen, willing students. None were trained to be priests nor to make priests other than the model cited above by Peter.
That is the culture of a nation of priests that Jehovah wished for the Israelites and spoke of to Moses:
"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be
a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel" (Ex. 19:5-6 AV).
And the people all together said they would, but when it came right down to it, they would not, so God made them a priest class. The upshot of it was that a class of priests is for a disobedient people who will not themselves obey the Lord and draw near to Him.
That is not the plan for God's assembly of the servants of Jesus, He being their Head, the Holy Spirit drawing them near.
Being antiCatholic is not sufficient faith or religion; it does not produce the works that he Messiah required of the seven churches in Revelation.
Who says this, you? The LORD has not given you the role of being the judge of the validity of a human person's faith in Jesus. As a Catholic, one may not even know the Jesus of the Bible, let alone have a saving faith in Him.
“Wow. I honestly don’t know what to think of the apparent disdain some Roman Catholics have for the written Word they claim to have “given” to us.”
There was no disdain for God’s Word in anything I wrote but your false insinuation that there was is certainly an example of how Protestants opposed to the Catholic Church often struggle to tell the truth.
“Where your argument fails, again, is there are no prohibitions on owning a Bible.”
And there’s no prohibition to having a statue either. Just don’t worship it. Remember, the Bible notes that statues were placed in the Temple itself, others rested upon the mercy seat. I have seen Catholics, Orthodox and even Protestants venerate the Word: kissing their Bibles, praying with it in their hands, holding over someone in prayer. I never made the mistake of concluding those people were worshiping the Bible.
“The idols Catholics kneel before and pray to,”
We don’t pray to statues. You’ll keep saying we do. You just don’t seem to care about the truth. I’ve been Catholic my whole life and I have never once prayed to a statue or painting or any other artwork. I have yet to meet any Catholic who has. I have met a whole bunch of Protestant anti-Catholics, however, who post completely false statements like what you just posted.
“...the reliance upon “Mary” for salvation,”
Actually we all rely on Jesus, we just know He at times works through His saints to accomplish good things. But that fact won’t stop you from posting something false, however.
“...the equating of “Mary” as Co-redemtrix, Mediatrix,”
There’s no equating.
“the belief that wearing a piece of cloth can save you from the hell-fire,”
Not taught by any official Catholic organ or agency. You are, of course, completely ignoring important things like “departing this world in charity”. But why let the truth get in the way of a good falsehood, right?
“the false promises of the Rosary,”
There aren’t any.
“all testify to the Roman Catholic worship of “Mary”.”
Nothing you just said is true.
“The whole field of Mariology is another extension of this worship of “Mary”.”
No, because then that would mean all Protestants are guilty of Bibliolatry. But only someone with circumspection will see that rather obvious point so anti-Catholics miss it every time.
You asserted, "To be “saved,” as in taken out of the space-time realm of biological existence, into the spaceless, timeless realm of The Father’s spiritual existence requires that we shed our biological bodies completely."
Without time, events do not occur "No shadow of turning" perhaps rings a bell?
Without space a 'thing' does not exist. In the Throne Room, which is IN THE UNIVERSE GOD HAS CREATED, events occur and real beings exist and exchange information.
ONLY God, the uncreated Being exists in a timeless, spaceless reality from which HE Created ALL Things through the Word. If any thing is created, it eists in some fashion of time and space. We who will be Raptured are not transformed into timeless/spaceless beings because we will be existing in the Universe God has created, even with our new 'fit=for=eternity' bodies.
What a load of egotistical, elitist garbage! A faith community/ecclesia has the provenance and historicity of the early faith communities as long as they hold to the tenets of the Christian faith as spelled out for us in the word of God. For modern-day Roman Catholics to claim sole ownership of the ancient witnesses of the faith is as absurd as their assertion to BE the one, true Church of Jesus Christ by which ALL "must pass as through a door". In fact, such boastful claims totally ignore that the Roman Catholic church of today simply cannot trace back many of her dogmas to the first century churches and loses constancy to the "believed everywhere, always and by all" standard that defined orthodox Christianity. I can trace my beliefs all the way back to the first century and would feel right at home among the believers of ANY of the Apostles' established assemblies and am confident they would welcome me with open arms. We'll share eternity together in heaven - better get used to it.
Not taught by any official Catholic organ or agency. You are, of course, completely ignoring important things like “departing this world in charity”. But why let the truth get in the way of a good falsehood, right?
Just taught by the apparitions Roman Catholics claim to be "Mary".
Do you wear the Scapular? Maybe the Miraculous Medal?
If you do you're certainly not trusting in Jesus for your salvation. There are some Roman Catholics on this board who admit to wearing both.
>>“The whole field of Mariology is another extension of this worship of “Mary”.”<,
No, because then that would mean all Protestants are guilty of Bibliolatry. But only someone with circumspection will see that rather obvious point so anti-Catholics miss it every time.
A study of the Word now is a problem for you? Got it.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Awful hard to understand the Word and it's meaning if you don't study it.
We don’t pray to statues.
Catholics pray to the image represented by the idol of the person they're praying to. The Catholic may gaze upon the idol and pray to "Mary" but not the actual idol itself. You're arguing semantics in an attempt to excuse idolatry and again you fail at your argument.
>>“the false promises of the Rosary,”<<
(btw...when you lift something out of sentence it's proper to use ellipses to indicate an omission)
There aren’t any.
Just a few for comparison to the Word.
| 15 Promises of the Rosary | Comparison to the New Testament | |
| 3) The Rosary shall be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin, and dispel heresy.. | 10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, 15and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; 16in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Ephesians 6:10-17 NASB |
|
| 5) Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary, shall not perish. | 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18 NASB | |
| 11) What you ask through my Rosary, you shall obtain. | 14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. 1 John 5:14-15 NASB |
|
Amazing, isn’t it, how anti-Protestant bigots cannot see their own hypocrisy?
I heard John Bisagno, himself an ex Catholic, preach, that the less light there is in a religion, the more lights it must have, to make it look palatable. Do we know any particular religion like that? 😆
Hah! Your 01 F5 05 is hexadecimally laughable!
One who thinks that sentient activity, personal appearance, and communicative exchange cannot be conducted without biological attributes needs to buy themselves an iPad. All done through radio waves and binary switches. Duh.
Ping
No reasonable person would rely on you cut-and-paste Protestant anti-Catholic presentation of the Catholic Faith for a fair telling of what the Faith and Scripture teach.
You just keep trotting out the same old same old as if you’re actually telling the truth when you’re only distorting and misrepresenting things as usual. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3539119/posts#4
ebb tide gave a good response to you - that he or she would pray the Rosary for you. I’ll do the same.
Now, on to the points which you misrepresented by presenting them as a false dichotomy between Scripture and the promises:
“3) The Rosary shall be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin, and dispel heresy..”
This promise, along with #4, is simply a reminder of how fervent prayer helps us grow in holiness by strengthening us to avoid sin. The Rosary is especially good in this regard because the meditations are often about self-denial, perseverance, and spiritual resignation before God. An increase in holiness necessitates that we choose God over sin and doctrinal errors or heresies. See Lumen Gentium Chapter 5, paragraph 42. Mary’s intercession was always requested by good Christians when having to deal with heresies and heretics.
Saying that prayer to God for aid in holiness armors us against Hell in no way violates anything in Ephesians 6:10-17. When Jesus taught us to pray the Our Father one of the specific things we were to pray for was forgiveness of our sins and His aid in avoiding sin (Matthew 6:9-13). In the Rosary, we ask Mary to intercede for us with God so we can avoid sin and avoid Hell.
“5) Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary, shall not perish.”
The Virgin Mary is a spiritual mother to us since she is our Lord’s mother and He is our Savior and Brother, and she’s a great advocate for us with her Divine Son as well. Christians have always sought out her assistance and the Church even points this out in the beautiful Memorare prayer, “never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided”. I know many people who have been aided through Mary’s intercession. This was foreseen in the story of the Wedding of Cana.
Nothing in that violates John 3:16-18 for all that Mary does she does through the power of God in service to her Divine Son. Mary has always been the handmaid of the Lord and always will be in her spiritual capacity. Jesus made her. Jesus made her a saint. She cooperates with His plan even today.
“11) What you ask through my Rosary, you shall obtain.”
This emphasizes Mary’s role as an advocate for us. Of course, all requests are subject to God’s will - and He naturally answers according to His plan in regard to our need and disposition. The promise is not absolute. An ignorant person might take it that way. A person with no regard for the truth who wishes to attack the Catholic Church would certainly portray it that way.
God grants requests that He deems good for our soul, our salvation, and Mary, as a perfected saint in Heaven, only intercedes for us when our request is good for our salvation as part of God’s plan. And, as is clearly noted in Lumen Gentium, Chapter VIII, paragraph 62, where the Second Vatican Council pointed out, “This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.”
So, once again, we see how you were wrong. Nothing in the promise violates 1 John 5:14-15 since Mary goes to Jesus for everything. When Jesus walked the earth people asked Him to heal them. When He ascended into Heaven people turned to the Apostles for healing and even used objects that touched the Apostles for healing (Acts 19:12). If God can use a handkerchief on earth to heal physical illness, He can use the intercession of a saint in Heaven and prayers of the saints on earth to help heal those suffering spiritual illnesses.
Protestants need to take care when interpreting the Bible since their natural disposition, grounded in error, is to come to some wrong-headed conclusions. Here’s a minor example:
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