Posted on 04/10/2017 5:16:23 PM PDT by grumpa
BIBLIANO and AMIGO: Discussions on Eschatology (Lesson #2, Last Days)
by Charles S. Meek
AMIGO: We are in the Last Days! The end is near!
BIBLIANO: My friend, why do you think that?
AMIGO: I watch the Trinity Broadcasting Network. You know—Iran getting the nuke, ISIS, Syria, blood moons, riots in the streets. Just read the newspaper!
BIBLIANO: Have you ever seriously studied what the Bible says about the so-called Last Days?
AMIGO: Don’t have to. All I need is TBN. Those preachers can’t be wrong about this. They sell a lot of books.
BIBLIANO: Well, I hate to break your bubble, Amigo. But there are approximately fifteen primary mentions of the Last Days or End Times in the New Testament. The culmination of none of them can be placed outside of the first century.
AMIGO: You’ve got to be kidding me, right?
BIBLIANO: Here are the passages: Matthew 24:3, 14 (cf. Matthew 24:34; Daniel 12:4-11); Acts 2:14-20 (cf. 3:24); 1 Corinthians 7:31; 10:11; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 3:1-5; Hebrews 1:2; 9:26; James 5:1-9; 1 Peter 1:5-7, 13; 1:20; 4:7; 2 Peter 3:3; 1 John 2:18; Jude 18. Please take the time to look each of these up and think about them. But let’s just consider a few of these:
Acts 2:14-20—Peter declared that they themselves (in the first century) were witnessing the last days’ events foretold by Joel.
1 and 2 Timothy—Paul told Timothy to avoid certain things in the last days. Timothy would have to still be alive today if the last days were in the 21st century.
Hebrews 1:2—The writer said that they were in the last days when he was writing.
1 Peter 4:7—Peter declared that the “end of all things was at hand” for those living in the first century.
AMIGO: Well, if Peter said THAT, he must have been wrong.
BIBLIANO: Peter wasn’t wrong. You are just misunderstanding what he meant. The “end” of which Peter and the others spoke was not the end of the physical universe, but something else very, very important in the history of Judaism. It was the END OF THE AGE, that is, the Old Covenant Age. Jesus tied the end of the age with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21). It would happen in their generation, and it happened just as Jesus predicted—in AD 70. This is significant for several reasons, but for one, it ended the age-old system of sacrifices for sin. This was important theologically because it was the exclamation point that sacrifices for sin were no longer possible in the temple, but rather only through the sacrifice of the One True Lamb, Jesus Christ.
AMIGO: OK, but maybe the Last Days started in the first century, and we are still in them today.
BIBLIANO: The evidence can’t support that, and it makes no sense, Amigo. That would make the “last days” longer than the period to which they were an end. And there are over 100 passages in the New Testament that affirm that the all the events associated with the last days/end times would be fulfilled in the first century. The writers of the New Testament spoke with one unambiguous voice on this. (Examples: Luke 21:22, 32; 1 Corinthians 7:29, 31; 10:11; Hebrews 8:13; 10:25, 37; James 5:8-9; 1 Peter 4:17; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20; etc.) The Old Testament says the same thing. For example, Daniel chapters 9 and 12 teach that the “time of the end” would be when the temple sacrifices for sin ended. It all fits a first-century fulfillment: AD 70.
AMIGO: What about the “last day” (singular)? Don’t some people think that this refers to the last day of the Christian age?
BIBLIANO: The “last day” is the end of the “last days.” The Bible teaches that the Christian age has no end (Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Luke 1:32-33; Ephesians 3:20-21). Therefore, the Christian age has no last days, nor does it have a last day! However, the Mosaic age had an end, last days, last day, and last hour.
AMIGO: Well, I guess I better rely more on my Bible than what I hear people say.
For more challenging thoughts about biblical eschatology, see the articles at my website:
https://prophecyquestions.com/2014/02/01/articles-by-charles-meek
and Facebook site:
https://www.facebook.com/EvangelicalPreterism/?fref=ts&ref=br_tf
Apostle John’s visions written in Revelations are a lot more connected with the modern era than the First Century.
That the world watches the corpses of the two witnesses and then beholds their resurrection is certainly one aspect of Revelation that cannot be fulfilled till fairly recent times.
Elijah and Enoch???
Taken by God iirc.
Swing and a miss.
The witnesses in Revelation are quiet clearly described as being killed, their bodies being left for the whole world to watch and then being raised from the dead, again, while the world is watching them.
Their identities are not given. It is a matter of speculation.
Dang!
I used to watch TBN...Alot!
The Two witness create some wild
Special Effects.
They tick off the bad guys and get
Sacked.
My biblical dissertation...
Thank You!
I’ve hardly ever watched TBN.
In fact, and I’m not trying to be insulting to TBN here, just confessing, I still confuse it’s call letters with Ted Turner’s bunch.
... which I also hardly ever watch.
Everyone believes they are living in ‘the last days’.
Used to be a good way to get a lot of ‘followers’ to drink Kool-Aid and pay to be in on the last good old binge.
They are dead and we are not. Don’t put your faith in the words of men...
Any of ‘em.
Did I say I was?
Still, Revelation has aspects that require capabilities not known until these days.
But if y’all want something else then consider that both the falling away which Christ mentioned and the process of men being turned over to reprobate minds look a lot like stuff we are seeing now.
20 yrs ago I had an Awakening.
Could not get enough of it All.
Then I moved to SoCal.
Where you are shouldn’t matter any more than who you may care about,
Bravo!!
As of today, we have 177 days and a few hours left.
See "The Rescue of the Bride" at http://october-5-2017.com
Anyone who does not get rescued will face a firestorm that will burn up a third of the earth. Ref. Revelation 8:7
7 The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
Everything you need to escape the firestorm is offered to you in detail at http://october-5-2017.com
The problem here is that BIBLIANO is debating eschatology with AMIGO, who admittedly does not know the Bible and relies on a bunch of TV preachers which includes many heretics. And to imply that those who reject full Preterism as being ignorant of the Bible is nonsense.
Anyone who denies a literal, bodily return of Jesus Christ to receive believers to Himself and establish His reign over the earth, is NOT a true believer or follower of Jesus. That person is a false teacher.
2 Timothy 2:16-18
But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
Jesus, the eternal Son of God, came in the flesh. He did not just dwell in the flesh. He became flesh. He died in His physical body. He was raised bodily. He ascended to Heaven and is now seated at God’s right hand bodily. He will return bodily.
“For example, Daniel chapters 9 and 12 teach that the ‘time of the end’ would be when the temple sacrifices for sin ended. It all fits a first-century fulfillment: AD 70.”
Certainly some things Jesus prophesied were fulfilled in 70 A.D. This includes the destruction of the 2nd temple. However, many prophecies remain unfulfilled. And the end of daily sacrifices will occur in the third temple.
If all of the prophecies of the Olivet discourse were fulfilled in 70 A.D. then Christians are robbed of the blessed hope of Christ’s return, including the rapture of living believers, and the resurrection of believers who have already died. This is the same sort of pernicious doctrine that Hymenaeus and Philetus spread, and for which they incurred divine judgment.
as everything in God’s design, he presages everything.
Last days is no different.
Generally, people who believe we are living in the millennium (i.e the last days have passed) also are virulent anti-israel.
soooo....pretty easy to identify..... If you hate jews, you might be on the dark side.
Beware. Preterism !
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Intriguing. I have previously searched for confirmation of this and for some information about “Pat Burt,” to no avail. Ph.D. religion and theology here, author of several books on eschatology.
Full preterism cannot be biblically supported. You can argue a partial preterism if you argue Jesus’s prophecies in Matthew are separate from the prophecies Jesus delivered in Revelation. This position is not hard to argue either, as it reconciles some of the issues with the apostles being told they would see the prophecies in Matthew come to pass.
It is abundantly clear that the prophecies of Revelation were not fulfilled in 70 AD. The 70 weeks of Daniel supports this, as does the content of Revelation itself.
Further I might even disagree with the statement that the Christian age has no end. Depends on how you define it. The Church does have an end...that end comes when it has fulfilled its work and then is taken into heaven by Jesus.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.