Posted on 02/19/2017 5:01:22 AM PST by metmom
No, we can thank the HOLY SPIRIT for the Bible.
2 Timothy 3:14-17 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
You seem to imply that the Bible is the only source of Truth from God. Can you provide the authority that all of God’s Truth is contained in the Bible? Can you provide the authority on whom can interpret the Bible?
Jesus.
John 8:31-32 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
Jesus said that we would KNOW the truth.
Could you please show us somewhere in Scripture where God tells us it is necessary for someone to *interpret* God's word for us?
And a few other questions...
If people cannot interpret the Word itself correctly then how can the those in any one church claim to be able to do that?
Is there an interpretation of the interpretation?
And just where can we find said interpretations of Scripture that the Catholic church claims is necessary to understand Scripture?
If people cannot interpret Scripture correctly themselves, then where does the Catholic church get off claiming THEY can? On what basis?
And if people cannot interpret Scripture itself correctly what makes anyone think that those same people can correctly interpret the interpretation?
Other versions say *freely by His grace*.
In the Greek, the word freely* is this.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1432.htm
dórean: as a gift, to no purpose
Original Word: δωρεάν
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: dórean
Phonetic Spelling: (do-reh-an')
Short Definition: as a free gift, without payment, freely
Definition: as a free gift, without payment, freely.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1432 dōreán(the adverbial form of 1431/dōrea) – something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion. See 1431 (dōrea).
FREELY given.
Not attained by going to confession and doing penance to earn it or become worthy of it>
FREELY forgiven by God's grace.
Without strings.
The Catholic requirements to attain forgiveness make it a work and hence wages due.
If you do *X* then God does *Y*. By our doing it, it makes God beholden to us for what we did and then He is obligated to *forgive* us.
But that's not forgiveness.
Forgiveness by it's very nature is not earned or deserved. If it was, once again, it's wages due for works performed.
It ceases to be forgiveness but an obligation.
Those who have the Holy Spirit have already been saved.
That baptism wasn’t to save them, it was for those who had been saved.
Some say it is a simple matter of confessing Christ Jesus as Lord, it is not that simple.
So what else do you think is required?
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Repentance. The Lord told the Adulteress to go her way and sin no more.
You can’t expect The Lord to not care whether or not we try to stop sinning. The Lord wants sinners to turn their lives around and come unto him.
Second we must leave our sins on the alter and beg forgiveness of them.
Not according to Scripture. I John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
There is no begging here.
Neither was there begging by the forgiven malefactor on the cross: Luke 23:42-43: “42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
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What you say doesn’t work. It is true what you say but The Lord had not been to Heaven to see His Father when He spoke to Mary at the Tomb on Easter Morning. There must be a resting place between Heaven and Hell that Christ called Paradise. Where ever they were it wasn’t in Heaven since Christ hadn’t been there yet.
Do you believe Jesus IS God?
That we don't get the condemnation that our sins deserve is mercy. That we DO get what we don't deserve is grace.
“There must be a resting place between Heaven and Hell that Christ called Paradise.”
There was and it was called Abraham’s bosom, Luke 16:19-31, but it closed when Christ took all the saved in Sheol home to be with the Lord. Ephesians 4:7-9
Where is the Lord?
Sitting at the right Hand of God the Father in Heaven. Mark 16:19
When you die where do you go if you are saved?
To be with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8
So when you die and are saved you go directly to Heaven.
“Some say it is a simple matter of confessing Christ Jesus as Lord, it is not that simple.”
Acts 16:31 King James Version (KJV)
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 10:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
These two Holy Scriptures tells us exactly what it takes to be saved no more no less. Do you have any Holy Scripture that tell us different?
We are seated in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus RIGHT NOW.
God only forgives those who repent of their sins. II Cor. 7:10 says, “[G]odly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation.” I John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he . . . will forgive our sins.”
God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, “‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’” (John 20:21–23).
(This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)
Note that the power Christ gave the apostles was twofold: to forgive sins or to hold them bound, which means to retain them unforgiven. Several things follow from this. First, the apostles could not know what sins to forgive and what not to forgive unless they were first told the sins by the sinner. This implies confession. Second, their authority was not merely to proclaim that God had already forgiven sins or that he would forgive sins if there were proper repentance.
Such interpretations don’t account for the distinction between forgiving and retaining—nor do they account for the importance given to the utterance in John 20:21–23. If God has already forgiven all of a man’s sins, or will forgive them all (past and future) upon a single act of repentance, then it makes little sense to tell the apostles they have been given the power to “retain” sins, since forgiveness would be all-or-nothing and nothing could be “retained.”
Furthermore, if at conversion we were forgiven all sins, past, present, and future, it would make no sense for Christ to require us to pray, “And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors,” which he explained is required because “if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses” (Matt. 6:12–15).
Is the Catholic who confesses his sins to a priest any better off than the non-Catholic who confesses directly to God? Yes. First, he seeks forgiveness the way Christ intended. Second, by confessing to a priest, the Catholic learns a lesson in humility, which is avoided when one confesses only through private prayer. Third, the Catholic receives sacramental graces the non-Catholic doesn’t get; through the sacrament of penance sins are forgiven and graces are obtained. Fourth, the Catholic is assured that his sins are forgiven; he does not have to rely on a subjective “feeling.” Lastly, the Catholic can also obtain sound advice on avoiding sin in the future.
But but but, without the extras monitored, doled, and diddled by the catholic org what happens to their power over people? ... they shrink to just another org! JESUS saves, not an org (rhymes with Borg).
No, God says *confess*.
You sure have lots of speculation and interpretations.
OTOH, I read what it says and believe it.
Furthermore, if at conversion we were forgiven all sins, past, present, and future, it would make no sense for Christ to require us to pray,
Oh, nonsense. There are many reasons to pray and many things to pray for.
Getting forgiveness isn't the only reason to pray.
Is the Catholic who confesses his sins to a priest any better off than the non-Catholic who confesses directly to God? Yes.
And this is unadulterated nonsense.
Catholics are such respecters of persons that it is ridiculous. And God calls that a sin.
Yes. First, he seeks forgiveness the way Christ intended. Second, by confessing to a priest, the Catholic learns a lesson in humility, which is avoided when one confesses only through private prayer.
Not true for all counts.
Third, the Catholic receives sacramental graces the non-Catholic doesn’t get; through the sacrament of penance sins are forgiven and graces are obtained.
God LAVISHES His grace on us. He doesn't dole it out in stingy little parcels based on performance.
Grace is received through faith, not through works.
Ephesians 1:3-10 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Fourth, the Catholic is assured that his sins are forgiven; he does not have to rely on a subjective “feeling.”
Christians assured because of the promises of God, not feelings.
WE believe God when He tells us something. We don't take man's word for it.
Lastly, the Catholic can also obtain sound advice on avoiding sin in the future.
God's word provides that sound advice.
Psalm 119:11 I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.
“Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations.”
Not one bit of that Satanic writing is biblical except if you still want to be under the Law!
Now lets get biblical and what exactly did Christ leave with the Church of God as powers to be used.
First and foremost the presence is the Holy Spirit of the Living God within all His saved people.
John 14:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
As you can see the power is through the Holy Spirit not through men. I know you don’t understand nor can you see it as Holy Scripture states the world can’t see it, but there is hope for you it’s not too late.
If you want to learn about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that Christ gave to man then read 1 Corinthians 12, but forgiveness of sins ISN’T one of them.
Even as wicked as the leadership of the Jews was in Jesus time they still realized that only God could forgive sins. Mark 2:7
Praise God we are!
What Catholics clearly do not get is that NOBODY is ever free from sin, and even if they were, they’d still be under the condemnation of death for the sin they committed previously.
Everything we are is twisted and corrupted by sin.
They do not understand the nature of sin or the sin nature.
They seem to think they can go for periods of time and not sin.
“Is the Catholic who confesses his sins to a priest any better off than the non-Catholic who confesses directly to God? Yes.
And this is unadulterated nonsense.”
Actually it blasphemy!
Even the evil Jewish leadership of Jesus time knew better than this. Mark 2:7
Excellent.
You mean like when they say “IF” you sin after being Baptized?
If you don’t think we and the earth are still under the curse of sin just go look in a field for some thorns or thistles trust me they are still plentiful.
It appears that they think they can reform the old sin nature and get it to stop sinning.
They can’t.
That’s why we’re given, by God, a new, sinless nature, one that is alive spiritually and is without sin.
Then when this body of ours dies and the last of our sin nature is gone, all that’s left is the new sinless nature we were given. The one that is already seated in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
Catholics talk about getting to heaven and finding out when they die if they made it.
God tells us that if we are His, born again believers, we are already there seated with Him. We were transferred into the kingdom of the Son he lives when we were saved.
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