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To: DouglasKC; metmom
Some additional passages the Holy Spirit just reminded me of while I was taking a shower:o)...Jesus said:

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    (John 16:7-15)

The Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus and not Himself. Scripture says we can "grieve" the Holy Spirit with whom we are sealed until the day of redemption. We grieve Him, I believe, when we sin, when we ignore His power within us to walk in good works prepared for us and, even, when we deny Him or - as some sects do - overemphasize His role and place in the Godhead. The Nicean Creed was formulated in the fourth century, sure, but it really is undeniable that the truth of the threescore, triune nature of Almighty God is prevalent throughout Scripture - spoken of in Old Testament passages as well as the New Testament. The above passage from the Gospel of John is one of the main Scripture verses where the term about the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son comes from. It is an ancient Tradition (capital T) of the rule of the Christian faith as is the one, true God, the Deity of Jesus Christ, His virgin birth, His resurrection, His death on the cross for our justification and salvation by grace through faith. It would be a mistake to reject it just because its formal definition came later. What matters is if the doctrine can be proven BY Scripture and I believe it certainly can which is why I accept it.

115 posted on 02/10/2017 9:04:32 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
A couple of things: The use of capital letters to emphasize deity is a complete English construct. There are no capital letters in the greek. So "He" or "he" is essentially irrelevant to truth. Gender pronouns are the translators call. Parakletos, or comforter, is a male noun IN GREEK but that doesn't mean a parakletos has to be a man. A parakletos could be woman. "He" is assigned because it's assumed by translators that it refers to a "person" in a trinity.

Likewise "spirit" is a gender neutral noun IN GREEK. But spirit when used in this sense CANNOT be male or female because it refers to something that is NOT male or female. God is NOT male and God is not female because God is NOT human. We are male and female as humans in large part because that's how we reproduce.

So HE or him or whatever is meaningless establishing the personhood of the holy spirit. It's completely translator discretion. And if you look at pronouns in different version of the bible that refer to the holy spirit you'll see the same passages referring to the holy holy spirit as "it" or "he" depending on the translation. Of "itself" or "himself".

Point 2: Applying characteristics to establish the personhood of the holy spirit is also problematic. I could just as easily say that the holy spirit is "poured" and is a gift (Acts 10:45). Both of these are non-personal attributes. The holy spirit can be quenched (1 Thessolonians 5:19)....another non-personal attribute. I could name more but the point is that terms applied to the holy spirit can't establish personhood.

The bigger point is that you are, whether you recognize it or not, is believing a 4th century construct and THEN going back and finding scriptures that you believe support that theory.

If I want to believe that UFO's are real I could go back and find many scriptures that "support" that. But it's not the truth.

The REAL test is what they believed in bible times. And in bible times it's undisputable. They DID NOT believe in the trinity theory. Jesus didn't. Peter didn't. Paul didn't. Moses didn't. Abraham didn't. Nobody did. NOBODY believe in that theory until the 4th century.

124 posted on 02/11/2017 8:59:50 AM PST by DouglasKC
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