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To: boatbums
A couple of things: The use of capital letters to emphasize deity is a complete English construct. There are no capital letters in the greek. So "He" or "he" is essentially irrelevant to truth. Gender pronouns are the translators call. Parakletos, or comforter, is a male noun IN GREEK but that doesn't mean a parakletos has to be a man. A parakletos could be woman. "He" is assigned because it's assumed by translators that it refers to a "person" in a trinity.

Likewise "spirit" is a gender neutral noun IN GREEK. But spirit when used in this sense CANNOT be male or female because it refers to something that is NOT male or female. God is NOT male and God is not female because God is NOT human. We are male and female as humans in large part because that's how we reproduce.

So HE or him or whatever is meaningless establishing the personhood of the holy spirit. It's completely translator discretion. And if you look at pronouns in different version of the bible that refer to the holy spirit you'll see the same passages referring to the holy holy spirit as "it" or "he" depending on the translation. Of "itself" or "himself".

Point 2: Applying characteristics to establish the personhood of the holy spirit is also problematic. I could just as easily say that the holy spirit is "poured" and is a gift (Acts 10:45). Both of these are non-personal attributes. The holy spirit can be quenched (1 Thessolonians 5:19)....another non-personal attribute. I could name more but the point is that terms applied to the holy spirit can't establish personhood.

The bigger point is that you are, whether you recognize it or not, is believing a 4th century construct and THEN going back and finding scriptures that you believe support that theory.

If I want to believe that UFO's are real I could go back and find many scriptures that "support" that. But it's not the truth.

The REAL test is what they believed in bible times. And in bible times it's undisputable. They DID NOT believe in the trinity theory. Jesus didn't. Peter didn't. Paul didn't. Moses didn't. Abraham didn't. Nobody did. NOBODY believe in that theory until the 4th century.

124 posted on 02/11/2017 8:59:50 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
The REAL test is what they believed in bible times. And in bible times it's undisputable. They DID NOT believe in the trinity theory. Jesus didn't. Peter didn't. Paul didn't. Moses didn't. Abraham didn't. Nobody did. NOBODY believe in that theory until the 4th century.

By using the REAL TEST of what was believed in Bible times, you cannot possibly claim nobody believed in the Trinity until the 4th century. You have to ignore ALL the supporting Scripture as well as the writings of Christian leaders prior to then upon which the Nicean Creed - which formalized the definition of the Trinity in a succinct manner - was based on. C'mon...this was not something a group of drunks invented to fool Christians! And I don't just believe a "4th century construct", I believe because God revealed its truth in His word. We are composed of body, soul and spirit - three, yet still one person. We were created in the image of God who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit - three, yet still one God.

I'm done arguing with you as well. I stated why I believe in the Trinity and you said why you don't. Each person should make up his/her mind based upon the evidence and as God leads them.

134 posted on 02/11/2017 7:18:23 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: DouglasKC
Moses didn't.

Moses AT LEAST 'believed' in the Binity 'theory'...

Let US create man in OUR image.


136 posted on 02/12/2017 3:27:00 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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