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To: ifinnegan

“Why have people stopped believing what has been a belief during much of the history of Christianity?”

Because it is not consistent with the Bible.

Do you think Mary never had sex with Joseph, even after Jesus was born and she and Joseph were married?


The answer cannot be determined from Scripture alone. While Scripture does say that Mary did not have relations with Joseph until Jesus was born, it does not say that she did ever have relations with Joseph. While Scripture does say that Jesus was her firstborn son, it does not say that she ever conceived in her womb and gave birth to other children. While Scripture does mention the brothers of Jesus, it does not say Mary was the birth mother of any of these brothers.

Scripture does say that when the angel told Mary that she will conceive in her womb and bring forth a son, she asked how this could be, seeing she know not a man.

If Mary intended to know Joseph, it doesn’t make any sense that she would ask the angel how this could be.


76 posted on 02/03/2017 2:14:11 PM PST by rwa265
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To: rwa265

What do you believe?

(I’m not going to make fun of you or put you down).


77 posted on 02/03/2017 2:22:31 PM PST by ifinnegan (Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
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To: rwa265
Your reasoning is so twisted that you believe your own deceptions! ... "If Mary intended to know Joseph, it doesn't make any sense that she would ask the angel how this could be."

Do you believe Mary knew how babies are made, prior to the angelic visit? When the Angel told her she would bear a son, do you think she even imagined it would be due to supernatural occurrence? She sure made it plain to the Angel that she had not ever had sex! She, at her tender age, would not be proclaiming she would remain a virgin because she had made a covenant with Joseph to be married.

But no, you must twist the exchange to fit the great lie at the heart of Modern Catholicism! How utterly disgusting that you drag Mary around as some totem for your religion's lies! You've almost made her into a goddess! BLASPHEMY

81 posted on 02/03/2017 5:44:04 PM PST by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for spiritual discernment)
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To: rwa265
The answer cannot be determined from Scripture alone.

Meaning it lacks wholly inspired warrant.

While Scripture does say that Mary did not have relations with Joseph until Jesus was born, it does not say that she did ever have relations with Joseph.

The word for "till" in Greek almost always refers to a terminus before or indicating a change.

And if not, then Joseph deserves more credit, for I think celibacy usually is harder for the male, and his permission would have been necessary for Mary, unless it came from her father and he concurred (Numbers 30).

While Scripture does say that Jesus was her firstborn son, it does not say that she ever conceived in her womb and gave birth to other children. While Scripture does mention the brothers of Jesus, it does not say Mary was the birth mother of any of these brothers.

But firstborn can be in distinction to later births.

Your problem is that marital relations are descriptive of marriage (Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh), versus two not becoming one

And that there is only one possible recorded case of a celibate marriage in Scripture, (1 Kings 1:1-4) which is due to the infirmity of the man

And as said before, the Holy Spirit characteristically records exception to the norm, and in the case of Mary before she gave birth, but rather than affirming this being a continuing state, we have the conspicuous "till," which naturally only makes sense as indicating a change in that status in to a normal marital relationship. .

I do not argue that one must believe that Joseph and Mary did not remain celibate, but you simply do not have a Scriptural case for making Perpetual Marian Virginity a required belief. Resorting to Cath tradition only confirms the progressive accretions of traditions of men, and then teaching them for doctrines. Tragically.

113 posted on 02/03/2017 8:21:25 PM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: rwa265
The answer cannot be determined from Scripture alone.

SPECULATION reigns in the highest levels of the church.

158 posted on 02/04/2017 4:57:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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